EU referendum

[stonerblue]

Hmmmm....now let me think about that one. Could it be that several weeks ago, the remain camp were sitting on a very healthy lead in the polls with the chances of a Brexit looking very unlikely only for there to be a huge swing towards Brexit in the past week or so meaning that he had to come up with what effectively equates to a threat to every single working man and woman in the country?

I've seen some right shit spouted by both sides during this but for me this is the ultimate ****'s trick.

mine's the twat that told us the Turkish were all thieves and rapists and ten million of em would be here to do just that if we stay in the EU. Not only a twat but a fucking racist twat as well.

 

[stonerblue]

That's about 50% reduced straight away then, by stopping the EU migrants, result!

Apt username..

 

[BigJoe#1]

,

Genuine question all....why do we believe we can fix immigration if we leave the EU when over 50% of the people that come into the country are from "outside" EU??

The people who come from outside the EU will be either professional people bringing the skills we need or students paying for education. We need these people to function.

The people from the EU in part will be professionals, but others will be or are even unskilled people coming here to better themselves, but are not bringing the skills we need. I can't blame them for that, if you can whY wouldn't you?

 

[Juan King]

Apt username..

I was taking the piss!

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Because that is a border control issue that is controlled by the UK government which we can vote on. If we want a year of no immigration, as an example, it is possible to not allow any non-EU people in. We cannot do that with EU citizens.

Immigrants from outside the EU also have to have a reason for being here in the main. They have to be a student or have a job lined up and even then there are additional criteria. Again, that isn't the case with the EU, in which there is freedom of movement for all.

I'd also question your figures - I believe net immigration is 330k with 180k of that (55% - over half) being from the EU. That's using the ONS figures which have been heavily disputed in the referendum run-up with far more EU nationals being given NI numbers than the official immigration figures suggest.

Cheers mate...didnt know what the numbers were but someone just asked the Question to Gove on Question time....but he didnt really answer in much detail why those numbers from "outside" the EU were so high and why we hadnt reduced that number before now if immigration was such an issue...We havent had control over people from the EU but we have had control over non EU immigration issues....

For anyone that saw the question time, Felt sorry for that lady from Spain.....you could tell she was upset by the way she feels she and others that have moved here are being treated...

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

,

The people who come from outside the EU will be either professional people bringing the skills we need or students paying for education. We need these people to function.

The people from the EU in part will be professionals, but others will be or are even unskilled people coming here to better themselves, but are not bringing the skills we need. I can't blame them for that, if you can whY wouldn't you?

Hi BigJoe....but why havent we been training and giving those jobs to people that live here, instead of people from the other side of the world? Just makes me question, if we cant control non EU immigration now, why do we think we can control immigration if we leave?

 

[urban genie]

When the Irish voted against ratifying the Lisbon treaty thus potentially blocking it coming into effect,wheels were immediately put in motion to ensure they voted again with a few sweeteners thrown in.
If we vote to leave expect a similar scenario to unfold as the powers that be in Europe will realise the catastrophic implications for the whole European project.
Many remain campaigners don't seem to realise that when they say they want to stay in a reformed EU,voting to leave might well get them many of the concessions that Cameron failed to return with after his last feeble attempt at negotiation.

I don't think though that bar boris the main exit lot have an interest in new deals, it's out and nowt else.
Farage has apparently been offered a lordship by goves lot should they win and the exit tories can form a government.
In all Honesty I don't think boris guves a fuck if we are in or out, this was all about him courting favour ahead of gideon in the upcoming leadership contest, but I also think Gove will want that job too and the blonde buffoon is gonna get a shock when his, at the moment best mate stabs him right in the back to try become top tory instead.

 

[Helmet Cole]

And this from the same show:

It looks like Osbourn was handed two envelopes this morning. One with him in compromising photos, and another with his 'punishment budget' speech in and told he had till lunch time to make one public or the other one would be. #projectfear

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Hi BigJoe....but why havent we been training and giving those jobs to people that live here, instead of people from the other side of the world? Just makes me question, if we cant control non EU immigration now, why do we think we can control immigration if we leave?

Well at the moment we don't do we. Leave have said they will replace it with one points based system that applies to all immigrants from across the globe wanting to come to the uk.

That's the proposal from out.

What's the remain proposal .....

 

[stonerblue]

Oh ffs as bad as 911. Grow up. That is pathetic. Life is not all about money you know.

If you think it is the jobs data is out in the uk today ( probably not reached you in Australia) earnings are higher and more jobs have been created in the uk, yes business is shitting itself about brexit. Life goes on mate, we won't all live in caves.

'Grow up'? 'Pathetic'?
He/she was replying to a post that questioned the economy after 9/11.
I notice you have another childish pop at EB's location.
And EB has been banging on relentlessly throughout this thread about morals, opportunity, passion and principles and stated loads of times that economic reasonsing is not behind his/her thinking. You either don't read his (i'm sticking with man form now on) posts or you don't want to acknowledge any of the many reasonable points he's made. That's pathetic.

 

[rabby]

I don't think though that bar boris the main exit lot have an interest in new deals, it's out and nowt else.
Farage has apparently been offered a lordship by goves lot should they win and the exit tories can form a government.
In all Honesty I don't think boris guves a fuck if we are in or out, this was all about him courting favour ahead of gideon in the upcoming leadership contest, but I also think Gove will want that job too and the blonde buffoon is gonna get a shock when his, at the moment best mate stabs him right in the back to try become top tory instead.

Don't think it really matters what Boris and Farage think about new deals,the majority of parliamentarians are in favour of remaining.
As the process of leaving will be lengthy it's highly likely any major concessions offered would lead to a second referendum,this is assuming that the initial result was reasonably close.

 

[Ghandi's Flip Flops]

Ealing should do what Cameron is doing now. Keeping a low profile. All he's likely to do to any floating voters with this latest bollocks is turn them off the idea of staying.

Bit late for that now lol. I've pretty much been on the fence about which way to vote, and probably would've voted to remain on the day of the vote.
But with the leave objections & scare-mongering by Ealing, Cameron & co becoming more hysterical each day i've found myself inching towards the leave camp. Also to find out that Ealing works for Goldman Sachs & is also a non UK resident makes me even more suspicious of his motives, just like most of the politicians involved on both sides.

I'm now at a point where i wouldn't mind seeing a leave vote just to see the meltdown by Ealing, Cameron, Osborne & Co.
As to the ramifications & problems a leave vote may cause, i have faith & confidence that Britain can weather the storm and actually come out the other side in a better & stronger position.

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

'Grow up'? 'Pathetic'?
He/she was replying to a post that questioned the economy after 9/11.
I notice you have another childish pop at EB's location.
And EB has been banging on relentlessly throughout this thread about morals, opportunity, passion and principles and stated loads of times that economic reasonsing is not behind his/her thinking. You either don't read his (i'm sticking with man form now on) posts or you don't want to acknowledge any of the many reasonable points he's made. That's pathetic.

He has an unhealthy desire to tell people in the uk what's best for them when it does not affect him. He also talks about me paying more tax from the other side of the world. He lives and works in Australia good luck to him. I am not going to tell him how to vote in Australia or how much tax he should or should not pay. It's his business.

He also said by the way voting leave would be much more severe than 911. The economic impacts of 911 and the war and terror that followed that atrocity is nonsense. It's a pathetic analogy.

Get real if we stay in or vote leave the effects on the globe, economic or otherwise are not going to be anything like 911. Life will move on for us all. If it was that dramatic we would not be voting on the referendum in the first place.

Have some perspective.

 

[Credo]

Well at the moment we don't do we. Leave have said they will replace it with one points based system that applies to all immigrants from across the globe wanting to come to the uk.

That's the proposal from out.

What's the remain proposal .....

Remain proposal is put your head in the sand and hope it goes away.

 

[Credo]

The number of people migrating to the UK has been greater than the number emigrating since 1994. For much of the twentieth century, the numbers migrating to and from the UK were roughly in balance, and from the 1960s to the early 1990s the number of emigrants was often greater than the number of immigrants. Over the last two decades, both immigration and emigration have increased to historically high levels, with immigration exceeding emigration by more than 100,000 in every year since 1998.

The United Kingdom is among the EU countries with the largest inflows of foreign nationals, but it is not unique. In 2014, the EU countries with the largest inflows of foreign nationals were Germany (790,000), the UK (551,000), Spain (264,000) and Italy (248,000).

In 2014, 13% of people migrating to the UK were British nationals, 42% were nationals of other EU countries, and 45% were nationals of non-EU countries. This means just under half of migrants entering the UK in 2014 were subject to immigration control.

The main reason to migrate to Britain is work and secondly study. In 2009-2012 the main reason was study.

Net migration of EU nationals rose from 65,000 in the year ending September 2012 to 184,000 in the year ending March 2015, and was 184,000 in the year ending December 2015.

Estimates of the number of British migrants living in other EU countries differ among the available sources. However, taking into account the quality, coverage, and age of the different estimates, as well their comparability with data on EU migrants living in the UK, there are roughly around 1.2 million British migrants living in other EU countries, compared with around 3.0 million EU migrants living in the UK.

House of Commons Briefing Paper May 2016

Those coming from outside the EU are subject to immigration control. Students, Doctors, Nurses, Engineers, Football players for City. We can control who, when and how much.

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

Well at the moment we don't do we. Leave have said they will replace it with one points based system that applies to all immigrants from across the globe wanting to come to the uk.

That's the proposal from out.

What's the remain proposal .....

Dont know mate...ask Cameron!!;)

I just think the numbers from non EU countries show that the UK Government could have started to Fix immigration issues many years ago by improving the system that allows non EU people into the country.....We've had control over this but done nothing...like I always believed...UK Government just as much at fault than any EU regulation.....It just suits the Gove's of this world to use immigration now to try to win the argument.....

As a side note....he did better than what I expected against some tough questions!;)

 

[kevin horlocks wand]

Dont know mate...ask Cameron!!;)

I just think the numbers from non EU countries show that the UK Government could have started to Fix immigration issues many years ago by improving the system that allows non EU people into the country.....We've had control over this but done nothing...like I always believed...UK Government just as much at fault than any EU regulation.....It just suits the Gove's of this world to use immigration now to try to win the argument.....

As a side note....he did better than what I expected against some tough questions!;)

Yes he did particularly the low blow about the guardian reporter ringing his elderly father. I would have blown...

The eu ref isnt about immigration really , we will still need large numbers of immigrants into the country to add to the countrys growth, or do jobs those here don't want to do. It just needs managing better hopefully,

 

[sir baconface]

Hi BigJoe....but why havent we been training and giving those jobs to people that live here, instead of people from the other side of the world? Just makes me question, if we cant control non EU immigration now, why do we think we can control immigration if we leave?

Evening No 1, mate. Fair questions. Big Joe has answered you regarding the policy that would follow an exit. However, there is another side to this: political complacency. Some people are let in who shouldn't be, because of inadequate checks and patrols. Criminals and illegals are not deported when they should be because of either inefficiency, lack of will or yooman rights. Labour, coalition and Tory governments alike haven't given a flying fcuk. It is one small but significant reason for the backlash against the political establishment.

Whether we stay or go, they've had their arses singed and I'm sure this is one area that will receive more attention.

 

[SWP's back]

'Grow up'? 'Pathetic'?
He/she was replying to a post that questioned the economy after 9/11.
I notice you have another childish pop at EB's location.
And EB has been banging on relentlessly throughout this thread about morals, opportunity, passion and principles and stated loads of times that economic reasonsing is not behind his/her thinking. You either don't read his (i'm sticking with man form now on) posts or you don't want to acknowledge any of the many reasonable points he's made. That's pathetic.

No. His post was pathetic. I don't always agree with Ealing but he's more intelligent than the vast majority on here and is able to argue his own points very well.

Today and yesterday he purposely posted misleading headlines. He knows what he posted added nothing to the debate though they may scare those not well versed on the subject.

As I told him, he's better than that.

 

[Juan King]

I've been undecided until now. When the government start using threats to try & get people to remain, then you know something is wrong.