EU referendum

[KenTheLandlord]

It was more the terms & conditions that are so shocking, who in their right mind would commit their country to an unspecified debt to an organisation who can not be audited or held in any way liable, that has the power to take legal action but is not subject to the same either as an organisation or the individuals who run it.

No we are not part of this YET, but if we remain in bed with this bunch of crooks we could well get dragged in.

I am sure they would love to take on a country with almost 2 trillion euro of debt.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

That's really good I see what you did there! I see we have an intellectual and comedic heavyweight in our midst - speciality in avoiding debate and offering one line quips with a healthy dose of lazy stereotyping

As a mortgage broker, who did you work for?

 

[Metal Biker]

That's really good I see what you did there! I see we have an intellectual and comedic heavyweight in our midst - speciality in avoiding debate and offering one line quips with a healthy dose of lazy stereotyping

Pretty much sums up the past 448 pages, tbh.

 

[AlgarveBlu]

As a mortgage broker, who did you work for?

It's our own company and you'll understand due to some of the posters on here if I refrain from divulging the name.

 

[KenTheLandlord]

It's our own company and you'll understand due to some of the posters on here if I refrain from divulging the name.

Fair enough.

 

[blueonblue]

I am sure they would love to take on a country with almost 2 trillion euro of debt.

Why not, Italy is 2.1 trillion in the hole and signed up, lets not forget its the people behind the EU that literally prints the money, so for the cost of a few bits of paper they get to grab hard assets when it goes tits up.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

I beg to differ on national debt, our economies are propped up by a Ponzi scheme, debt grows every day and we kick problems financially and environmentally down the road. We rely on immigration across the world to plug the gap by driving productivity and keeping the retired population from becoming too big a portion of the population. You seem to ignore the fact we have a completely unsustainable economic model, we cannot afford to pay for our elderly and if it is not addressed very soon , discusses honestly and the population buying in it will be a catastrophe .

So what do governments do when they have to turn off he very tap that keeps the Ponzi scheme going, they distract and they look to blame somekne. To be fair in the UK it's easy we do what we have done for hundreds of years blame the French and the Germans.

Brexit is sucking all the energy out of policy, out of debate , out of business planning at the moment and we are using Brexit to hide the real discussions. I will admit Brexit is a better distraction than wars in Syria or stopping Transexuals going into women's toilets but all the same it is a distraction.

What worries me is that Brexiters seem to believe all will be alright and everything will be solved by an EU exit, at best things will be the same at worst we could face short or medium term economic problems the economy can't afford.

I am not sure what the future of the EU is and I can see issues in it, but I am damn sure it is about issue number 10 that the UK faces and in ignoring the first 9 we are showing a recklessness that could result in a decade looking in the wrong direction and some very major problems. These problems will not be as a result of Brexit necessarily but will be because we ignored hem to focus on Brexit.

To be certain, Britain has a fair few problems. That said, they pale in comparison to those faced by other countries, many within the EU. Accordingly, having initial, intermediate and final say over the remedies to those problems is EXACTLY why sovereignty is, or should be, so important to Britons.

Like you, I see a fairly painful global reckoning coming, as the "Ponzi schemes" of which you speak cannot last forever. However, we may see a different path to that final outcome. From afar, I see a country that is becoming increasingly reliant on the social pact, rather than personal responsibility. As others have mentioned, it is obvious there are haves and have nots in Britain, both regionally and personally, but that excuse is just that...an excuse. There are today, as there have always been, imperatives to "getting ahead." Some prefer to ignore them and simply blame society for their lot in life, while others dust themselves off and do what is necessary to make the best fist of it. In Britain I see to many of the former and not enough of the latter.

Yes, many of the heavy industry jobs (coal, steel and manufacturing) in Britain have been widely supplanted by services and other light industry. That tide waits for no man, so one either educates and trains or one falters and falls behind. It is a personal choice. THAT is somewhat that is seemingly missing from large swaths of Britiash society in 2016. There seems to be a mentality that "things are bad, someone needs to ... for me" rather than "things are bad, I need to ... for myself."

There is certainly a case to be made that I could have been that guy if I had stayed in th Manchester area, but I doubt it. After all, there was a time when I had $5 to my name in the U.S., and my parents had to file bankruptcy because of a dodgy accountant fucking them over on their taxes and Internal Revenue not caring a bit, but I survived and thrived.

Sad to say, I think the British disease, (which is rampant, especially amongst the lower working classes and unemployed (unemployable???)) is magnified by the "I will do whatever it takes to get ahead" mentality I find myself immersed in here in the U.S. Entitlement (believing you deserve/have something because of who you are), whether it is the silver spoons on the one end or the wooden spoons on the other, is a disease that needs eliminating.

 

[ChicagoBlue]

Not at all, just very blue rinse and land of hope and glory

Ah yes, patriotism is a sin in Britain...or at least on Bluemoon. My bad.

 

[cibaman]

I am not saying the recent Remain outpourings are 'bent' - but they are clearly heavily biased - through the process of loading the inputs to the models with worst case scenarios. Every single - I stand to be corrected but think that I am right - source for the recent 'data' has some level of vested interest in supporting the remain camp. Treasury - well that is a given. IMF also. CBI - certainly.

So why don't the Leavers put out their own data?

Why do the CBI have a vested interest in supporting remain?

 

[Monkfish]

Ah yes, patriotism is a sin in Britain...or at least on Bluemoon. My bad.

Patriotism might be, but jingoism is celebrated