EU referendum

EU referendum

  • In

    Votes: 503 47.9%

  • Out

    Votes: 547 52.1%
  • Total voters
    1,050
Status
Not open for further replies.
YPhrunts said:
I'm interested to know what 'in' means to you. Is it 1/ a Europe that we constantly try to hinder or 2/ do you want a complete capitulation on everything from joining Schengen and the Euro , in other words complete integration?
If your answer is 1/ then I cannot really see the point of voting in because you don't really want to integrate fully.
If your answer is 2/ Then be prepared for anything the Union tells you to do in future. That might also mean your children being forced into conscription to support a European army. If you think that is far fetched just remember that Lithuania is about to introduce conscripton and another Eastern European state is discussing it. You may think this wonderful peace of which you have enjoyed under the protection of NATO will continue but Trump has put a question mark under that and Junker is prepared to tool up with a European army and give America the cold shoulder. Anything could happen after that. Your kids could be called up to go and fight a war for the benefit of bureacrats in Brussels. And you would have no reason to refuse it as you are happy to be part of it. Think carefully what you are doing.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36565036
Click to expand...

From the article you quoted:-

Defence Secretary and Remain campaigner Michael Fallon ruled out the prospect of the UK ever joining an EU army, back in May.

"Our security rests on Nato. No one seriously disputes that. Britain will never be part of an EU army," he said.

"We have a veto on all EU defence matters and we would oppose any move to create one. In fact, I don't know any European defence minister who wants a European army," Mr Fallon added.

It's not a case of Britain hindering Europe. Barack Obama says he wants us in the EU, a like minded partner, and someone who has similar views to America (the largest contributor to NATO).
 
urban genie said:
One question not asked or answered is, if we vote leave is it just the EU the exit side want us out of as we will still be members of the council of europe, the european space agency, and some extent Euratom, or is it the whole hog?
Click to expand...

What is the question on the referendum again?
 
Mancini Manus Domini said:
From the article you quoted:-

Defence Secretary and Remain campaigner Michael Fallon ruled out the prospect of the UK ever joining an EU army, back in May.

"Our security rests on Nato. No one seriously disputes that. Britain will never be part of an EU army," he said.

"We have a veto on all EU defence matters and we would oppose any move to create one. In fact, I don't know any European defence minister who wants a European army," Mr Fallon added.

It's not a case of Britain hindering Europe. Barack Obama says he wants us in the EU, a like minded partner, and someone who has similar views to America (the largest contributor to NATO).
Click to expand...

If the EU wants a European army, the EU will get a European army. I expect people in the 1970s were saying there would never be anything other than a common market.
 
Mancini Manus Domini said:
Should the vote to leave the EU be successful how do those who want this feel about those EU citizens currently living and working in the UK? Is a line drawn here and they get to stay? Or do you make them return to their homelands?
Click to expand...


Think this is a no-brainer - they stay. I have not heard anyone consider otherwise
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Lighten up BigJoe! I wasnt accusing you of thinking like that - but what was Cameron supposed to say. The EU would have known where Dave stood since he focussed his negotiations on family and unemployment benefits - as well as opposing political integration

It chimes what you were saying the other week that if you are going to make a go of the EU you have to allies and probably a level Of committment to help to influence the agenda.
Click to expand...
I accept your point but I never have suggested we're superior to anyone else, again I'm not saying others don't think that but that I certainly don't.

I think Cameron should've picked up on this, and who knows, maybe he did. He should've told the EU, whoever that is, that there was a very strong liklihood, that unless he could take something that would enable us to protect our borders better, the U.K. Public will vote to leave. Not issue it as a threat just a clear indication of the mood of the population. That way, if and when we do vote to leave he could turn to the EU, shrug his shoulders and say, you reap what you sew!
 
halfcenturyup said:
What is the question on the referendum again?
Click to expand...

I know that, but this is a valid question, do the leave campaign want just an EU exit of would they like the rest to go as well at some point, like it or not europe is an intertwined continent and we are joined in many venture that affect the british public daily.
 
urban genie said:
I know that, but this is a valid question, do the leave campaign want just an EU exit of would they like the rest to go as well at some point, like it or not europe is an intertwined continent and we are joined in many venture that affect the british public daily.
Click to expand...
I can see no reason why a separate UK could not work with the EU as a single bloc, or indeed work with individual countries on a bi-lateral basis. I appreciate the latter is more difficult and less likely because the EU does not or would not encourage it.

Why would we break off all or any beneficial (to both parties) partnerships?
 
BigJoe#1 said:
I accept your point but I never have suggested we're superior to anyone else, again I'm not saying others don't think that but that I certainly don't.

I think Cameron should've picked up on this, and who knows, maybe he did. He should've told the EU, whoever that is, that there was a very strong liklihood, that unless he could take something that would enable us to protect our borders better, the U.K. Public will vote to leave. Not issue it as a threat just a clear indication of the mood of the population. That way, if and when we do vote to leave he could turn to the EU, shrug his shoulders and say, you reap what you sew!
Click to expand...

Fair enough BigJoe. I know you haven't said anything about superiority. I am focussing on how Cameron would have looked to the other EU Member States, given that they don't really see us as a committed European partner anyway.

Cameron might have stressed in private how important it was for the UK to be seen to helping the EU bit I don't think several of the Countries would have been bothered anyway. For example, the Polish know they have helped out economy out through young, hard working people who don't tend to cause problems for employers.

An Achilles heel for Dave is that the Rest of the EU can see his Government has done very little to control immigration from the rest of the world so why concede on the principle of free movement when the UK hasn't offered a serious alternative. even Brexit seem to be planning to expand immigration from outside of the EU!
 
Tim of the Oak said:
Fair enough BigJoe. I know you haven't said anything about superiority. I am focussing on how Cameron would have looked to the other EU Member States, given that they don't really see us as a committed European partner anyway.

Cameron might have stressed in private how important it was for the UK to be seen to helping the EU bit I don't think several of the Countries would have been bothered anyway. For example, the Polish know they have helped out economy out through young, hard working people who don't tend to cause problems for employers.

An Achilles heel for Dave is that the Rest of the EU can see his Government has done very little to control immigration from the rest of the world so why concede on the principle of free movement when the UK hasn't offered a serious alternative. even Brexit seem to be planning to expand immigration from outside of the EU!
Click to expand...
Your final point is valid. It could be defended but with great difficulty. The arguement that non-EU migrants are from selected professions and necessary to maintain out basic infrastructure would be a starting point. The point that EU migrants also provide these services is valid too, however there many EU migrants that do not provide such services and as such are a burden on our creaking infrastructure. It was never going to be easy but I think the way Cameron went strutting around Europe, claiming success at every point is beginning to come back and haunt him - I think his negotiations and tour of Europe was nothing more than a waste of money and resources and gas turned out to be an abject failure, he could and should have achieved a whole lot more... Just my opinion
 
BigJoe#1 said:
I can see no reason why a separate UK could not work with the EU as a single bloc, or indeed work with individual countries on a bi-lateral basis. I appreciate the latter is more difficult and less likely because the EU does not or would not encourage it.

Why would we break off all or any beneficial (to both parties) partnerships?
Click to expand...

We probably won't I was bringing it up because both sides have polarised their campaigns on 3-4 issues when there is so much more that should have been discussed, what our future holds in these 3 bodies being part of that. Some of those for exit seem to hope we will see a new british golden age where some seem to be isolationists. It all depends on the result and what happens next I suppose but still it would be nice if the debate had been expanded more than just the economy, immigration and security, there is so much more to discuss.
 
halfcenturyup said:
If the EU wants a European army, the EU will get a European army. I expect people in the 1970s were saying there would never be anything other than a common market.
Click to expand...
Why would the EU want an EU army if we already have NATO? I fully realise they are two different organisations but NATO underpins and defends the EU. Would it be a case of yet more duplication and expense for very little gain (something the EU is rather proficient at)?
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Your final point is valid. It could be defended but with great difficulty. The arguement that non-EU migrants are from selected professions and necessary to maintain out basic infrastructure would be a starting point. The point that EU migrants also provide these services is valid too, however there many EU migrants that do not provide such services and as such are a burden on our creaking infrastructure. It was never going to be easy but I think the way Cameron went strutting around Europe, claiming success at every point is beginning to come back and haunt him - I think his negotiations and tour of Europe was nothing more than a waste of money and resources and gas turned out to be an abject failure, he could and should have achieved a whole lot more... Just my opinion
Click to expand...

Yes Dave's negotiations weren't a success - at least in time for this referendum. We might never know if the agreement on a two speed Europe was significant or not.
 
BigJoe#1 said:
Why would the EU want an EU army if we already have NATO? I fully realise they are two different organisations but NATO underpins and defends the EU. Would it be a case of yet more duplication and expense for very little gain (something the EU is rather proficient at)?
Click to expand...

Surely an EU army would replace the member states' armies, not be in addition to them, or am I missing something here. NATO would be US, Europe and the rest.
 
In light of the tragic death of Jo Cox and the rightful respect of both campaigns to suspend campaigning......

What Do you think Camerom will do regarding his Question Time appearance tomorrow?

A) go ahead
B) defer it, though that could be politically difficult
C) abandon it

If it were to be C do you think he would be relieved to not be facing questions, he hadn't had in advance, from the public?

Curiosity getting the better of me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top