EU referendum

[stonerblue]

Give - those 600 economists are all paid by the EU and acting in self interest

How would you know, what with you being a johhny foreigner and that....

 

[sir baconface]

It was Tory policy in the last election and very clearly it's what Johnson is now playing. But in case of pedantry the switch off may be 90% not total

Oh dear. So nobody then? Give up, mate.

 

[BigJoe#1]

So you come up with a post without any benefits of leaving the EU lol!R

One thing you cannot come up with is a solid economics benefits case got leaving the EU, just as you cannot deliver the same for staying in the EU, it is all scenario based supposition.

You cannot tell me that we wouldn't have been much better off if we had never been part of the EU, that we wouldn't have had the feedom to develop our own trade agreements with the world outside the EU, that we have been slowed down to an embarrassing level in everything g we rely in the EU to do because we need everyone's sign off on everything. People who want to leave can only make these points as an opinion, there are no actual facts attached to them - and the same applies to those people who wish to remain.

Yes, if course there have been some perceived benefits for being in the EU, but there have also been some major dis-benefits and these need to be understood and discussed sensibly, not denied and attacked and the proponents ridiculed.

 

[Metal Biker]

They were French n the way Anglo Saxons are British, being pedantic we are all Asian or further back possibly all African . I am not defending napoleons just pointing out the nonsense about French military victories

They. were. not. French. They did not adopt French customs, they did not adopt French culture, their ancestry came from the Vikings who settled in Northern France (who surrendered Normandy without much resistance, just a little fyi there.) Nothing about that makes them French, just their ability to break language barriers to make trading with their new 'neighbours' easier. (Some French citizens speak English, does that make them English?)

The Anglo-Saxons were not "British", they were Germanic. Britain is the name of the island, given by the Romans. The 'Britons' were a collection of Celtic and Gaelic communities that were then conquered or dispersed by the Anglo-Saxons. The Anglo-Saxons themselves did not regard themselves as being 'British'.

The French being bad at fighting isn't nonsense when you consider their record in war is one of the worst in history, especially in regards to how long the nation has existed. The stereotype isn't one born from schadenfreude but historical fact. Someone has to be the worst at something, as it happens, its the French. Here's a few examples of why the French have to endure such japing.

Gallic Wars. Lost.

Hundred Years War. Mostly lost.

Italian Wars. Lost.

Thirty Years War. France wasn't really involved, gets invaded anyway.

The Dutch War. A draw (when England and Germany got involved to help the French)

War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War. Lost.

War of the Spanish Succession. Lost.

American Revolution. "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

French Revolution. Won. Primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

The Napoleonic Wars. Lost. (Technically Napoleon WAS a Corsican as well)

The Franco-Prussian War. Lost.

World War I. Saved by Britain and the United States

World War II. Surrendered early on, Northern France collaborated.

War in Indochina. Lost.

Algerian Rebellion. Lost.

 

[EalingBlue2]

How would you know, what with you being a johhny foreigner and that....

I just know , 587 used to work for Goldman Sachs too

 

[BigJoe#1]

Any "Out" vote, will cause Tory party meltdown. I reckon 55% Remain might keep Cameron in his job. There would probably be a leadership challenge but it wold likely be a stalking horse challenger. I would be surprised if Johnson threw his hat in the ring. The risk for him would be that the less rabid Leave MPs would decide to put the referendum behind them and vote for party unity. He would probably wait until Cameron agrees to step down in 2018.

Agreed on the out vote point. I thinks 55-45 victory would be deemed a massive success for the remainers, whereas anything like a48-52 victory for the remainers through the to any victory for the Leave campaign would be seen as a victory for the Leavers!

 

[denislawsbackheel]

They. were. not. French. They did not adopt French customs, they did not adopt French culture, their ancestry came from the Vikings who settled in Northern France (who surrendered Normandy without much resistance, just a little fyi there.) Nothing about that makes them French, just their ability to break language barriers to make trading with their new 'neighbours' easier. (Some French citizens speak English, does that make them English?)

The Anglo-Saxons were not "British", they were Germanic. Britain is the name of the island, given by the Romans. The 'Britons' were a collection of Celtic and Gaelic communities that were then conquered or dispersed by the Anglo-Saxons. The Anglo-Saxons themselves did not regard themselves as being 'British'.

The French being bad at fighting isn't nonsense when you consider their record in war is one of the worst in history, especially in regards to how long the nation has existed. The stereotype isn't one born from schadenfreude but historical fact. Someone has to be the worst at something, as it happens, its the French. Here's a few examples of why the French have to endure such japing.

Gallic Wars. Lost.

Hundred Years War. Mostly lost.

Italian Wars. Lost.

Thirty Years War. France wasn't really involved, gets invaded anyway.

The Dutch War. A draw (when England and Germany got involved to help the French)

War of the Augsburg League/King William's War/French and Indian War. Lost.

War of the Spanish Succession. Lost.

American Revolution. "France only wins when America does most of the fighting."

French Revolution. Won. Primarily due the fact that the opponent was also French.

The Napoleonic Wars. Lost. (Technically Napoleon WAS a Corsican as well)

The Franco-Prussian War. Lost.

World War I. Saved by Britain and the United States

World War II. Surrendered early on, Northern France collaborated.

War in Indochina. Lost.

Algerian Rebellion. Lost.

I cannot believe the debate has reduced to infantile levels such as this!

 

[Metal Biker]

Are you still at it? I thought you had given up given that posting GIFs is Bluemoon Code for losing the argument!

You are beginning to argue with yourself since you said in an earlier post that NATO was incapable of deterring atrocities in European Countries. You made a fair point then and bodies such as the UN have been shown to be ineffective as peacekeepers as well!
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/un-watched-massa

I've talked about membership of the EU as a means of developing democracies and not NATO!

Nooo, the discussion you stated was that the EU is responsible for bringing peace to Europe whereas everyone else acknowledges that it's down to NATO.

I also stated that NATO wasn't set up initially as a "protect Europe" initiative, but has become one due to it's effectiveness at preventing European NATO member countries from being invaded.

Listen, if you don't know of any non-NATO country attacking a NATO member in the last 70 years, just say so. There's no shame in not knowing.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

It was Tory policy in the last election and very clearly it's what Johnson is now playing. But in case of pedantry the switch off may be 90% not total

So why have the Tory Brexiters failed to significantly reduce immigration from outside the EU, given that they include several Government Ministers.

It couldn't be that the Tories (on both sides) want to keep the labour supply high so that their loaded friends can pay workers less in their businesses then they would otherwise earn!

 

[Metal Biker]

I cannot believe the debate has reduced to infantile levels such as this!

It's Bluemoon.