EU referendum

[smudgedj]

Fuck, and I thought I was scared at the thought of Boris being PM. Theresa May will have compulsory Government webcams in every home before she's finished.

Interesting. You think GCHQ doesn't have access to your web cam. :-)

 

[BigJoe#1]

At least they have acknowleged this but they are full of shit in reality, the sunday times editor hates the times editor and said his paper would come out opposite to the times declaration which was remain.

Now if that were true, which I would think highly unlikely (the fact someone would allow his relationship with another to influence his political opinion, especially at level of intellect), it is by far and away the most childish thing I've read for ages.... and bear in mind that includes EB2s drivelling posts in this thread! 80).

 

[BigJoe#1]

A


Agreed. The guy has been a liability. That poster is shocking.

I heard him on Pienaars Politics today when he was confronted about his poster.

His justification was that ut represented that the EU was letting everybody down and that Merkel makes decisions and we all gave to suffer them. It's a point badly made IMO.

 

[BigJoe#1]

There are strong rumours in Westminster that Bojo would offer Farrage a job in a future Tory Government. Might be BS of course?

Might be? HAHAHA!!!!

Go stick £10 on Boris being PM and Farage being Home Secretary... Then enjoy your retirement.

 

[SWP's back]

Good post PB.

 

[BigJoe#1]

I agree - I get annoyed with those in the Brexit side who say if we vote to remain the "battle goes on" - they campaign under a banner for democracy and yet have no intention of abiding by the outcome of a democratic vote. You can already see Farage is lining up his excuse to fight on with his moans over the extension to voter registration.

Probably countering the arguement that MPs would use their Parliamentary power to over turn a Brexit vote.... Democracy did you say?
'

 

[whp.blue]

It is a worrying trend from posters on here trying to tell people what they can and cannot write. I thought the Brexiters were the fans of denocracy?

You are trying to close down a genuine line of discussion. Politics includes personalities as well as policies etc!

It does when it suits

Pre general election and then post corbyn people were slated on here for making an anti Labour vote about personality

 

[urban genie]

Now if that were true, which I would think highly unlikely (the fact someone would allow his relationship with another to influence his political opinion, especially at level of intellect), it is by far and away the most childish thing I've read for ages.... and bear in mind that includes EB2s drivelling posts in this thread! 80).

It was something about the merging of the online editions of the sunday times and times with the latter getting first dibs on story leads even on a sunday. To say inteligent people won't act like dicks if they are pissed off is a bit silly, people are people no matter the interlect or lack of it. This may not be the reason entirely for the 2 different position mabye Martin Ivens realy is in the leave camp and John Witherow is firmly in the remain camp, but having a mini fued over who's the top dog makes people act funny, Just look at the tories in all this tearing each other apart at times calling each other pythons and such.

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Might be? HAHAHA!!!!

Go stick £10 on Boris being PM and Farage being Home Secretary... Then enjoy your retirement.

It was for Farrage to deny these rumours on the Preston Show - not me - and he didn't.

I have sensed a bit of panick in the posts of the Brexiters over the week end. I still think you guys will edge it!

 

[Tim of the Oak]

It does when it suits

Pre general election and then post corbyn people were slated on here for making an anti Labour vote about personality

Well I wasn't one of them!

Personality is a factor. Going back a bit further, Miliband had stabbed his brother in the back and he wasn't going to win a general election!

 

[Tim of the Oak]

How can you be certain the BoJo will be the next Tory leader? I think he stands little to no chance, he won't have the backing of the majority of Tory parliamentary party will he? They will be split right down the middle and many would not want work with or for him. The next Tory party leader will more than likely be Theresa May, as much as I despise her politics, she us about the only serving Tory MP that will have the profile, the clout and the authority to do this, the rest mate are dead men walking!

Bojo is only in the Brexit camp to progress his Tory leadership and PM desires! True or false Big Joe?

 

[BigJoe#1]

It was for Farrage to deny these rumours on the Preston Show - not me - and he didn't.

I have sensed a bit of panick in the posts of the Brexiters over the week end. I still think you guys will edge it!

Sadly on many levels, paramount if which it actually happened at all, I think the Jo Cox murder will influence many of the undecideds and indeed persuade many of the Leavers to vote to remain. This will swing the vote IMO.

 

[BigJoe#1]

Bojo is only in the Brexit camp to progress his Tory leadership and PM desires! True or false Big Joe?

True or false really doesn't matter. The Tory party is so split he will get nowhere near becoming their new leader. Theresa May us a shoo in... absolute certainty!

 

[EalingBlue2]

It was for Farrage to deny these rumours on the Preston Show - not me - and he didn't.

I have sensed a bit of panick in the posts of the Brexiters over the week end. I still think you guys will edge it!

Brexiters starting to get personal and many on here must have flipped as a near 150 Bluemoon lead is now 85. Does this reflect what will happen in the country? A flight to common sense?

 

[Tim of the Oak]

m

True or false really doesn't matter. The Tory party is so split he will get nowhere near becoming their new leader. Theresa May us a shoo in... absolute certainty!

Like I Said to PB, May has played her cards well and she will probably give Bojo a run for his Turkish Lira!

 

[EalingBlue2]

That doesn't fit with the uneducated, xenophobic, racist little Englander argument.

(excellent gif yesterday btw lol)

Ironically most of those countries mentioned have just signed up to TPP the move to a pacific trading block and something the UK won't be doing as people seem more anti TTIP than EU

 

[TRUE BLUE NO1]

I've just heard a debate that happened earlier this week that said that even tho we've been part of the European Union for over 40years....only 5% of the population in Britain today is from Europe...If these numbers are correct and considering we havent had full control over those numbers for so long, this doesnt sound like a country over run by immigration?...its amazing how the "leave" campaign are using this to fuel their argument about needing more control of our borders....also excellent points in this debate about what "could" (not will) happen to Scotland and England if we leave....lots of interesting discussion....Just a heads up for the "outs" half way in this debate...Boris seems more concerned about arguing the EU banana rule than whats going to happen to the economy and also admits to wanting turkey as part of the EU......personally, I dont expect anyone to agree as just my opinion....but I dont believe anything he says and believe vote "in" is best for the country....my opinion and I'm sticking with it!;)

Debate below is with Brois Johnson and Alex Salmond...

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Brexiters starting to get personal and many on here must have flipped as a near 150 Bluemoon lead is now 85. Does this reflect what will happen in the country? A flight to common sense?

I think many Bluemooners don't like being told what they can and cannot discuss. That's only by the odd Brexiter, with the majority on here running a very fair campaign!

 

[halfcenturyup]

A long but very interesting essay in The Economist (which has been resoundingly in the Remain camp generally).

http://www.economist.com/news/essays/europe

It makes the point that what is now the EU was basically France's post-war Plan C, after it failed to get control over German steel and coal then failed to build a pact with Russia. The author makes the point (which I'm not sure I agree with) that, from there, the EU grew by accident and possibly only got going properly when the French fell out with Britain over Suez and turned to the Germans instead. The whole basis of De Gaulle's refusal to grant us entry was the feeling we were too close to the USA (who had put pressure on us to abandon the military operation in Suez).

He might be right about its initial gestation but the more recent advances in European integration certainly had a wider motive, in my view. A-Level economics are enough to tell you that you can't force countries with completely different economies and fiscal policies into a single currency without causing damage. Control of interest rates, exchange rates and monetary policy are three of the key weapons that a country's financial policy makers need to have over their country's economy and while in the Euro, two of those have effectively been taken away, with economic consequences for the less strong economies. Greece, Portugal & Italy have suffered badly under the Euro while Spain has but has recovered slightly. It's created more problems than it has solved, which is another point the author makes. This EU, which is supposed to protect us against extremism and conflict, has actually led to the rise of the far-right as people express a greater desire for self-determination.

And there's worse to come because if you want growth in all the countries of the Eurozone, you have to have a single fiscal policy and, to do that, you need much deeper political integration. So people saying we should stay in and reform it from the inside are the delusional ones. The EU does not want to be reformed. It wants greater political and economic integration because that's the only way they can make it work and stop the whole thing falling apart. Like a company that's become too big and bloated and that's lost focus on where it should be, greater value will be delivered by breaking it up and making the constituent parts more nimble and better able to react quickly to changes in the business environment. The reason so many people in Europe and beyond want us to stay in is not for our benefit but for Europe's. Because if we vote to leave, then the pressure will grow for similar referendums in other countries. Despite being the founder of the EU, Euro-scepticism in France is even higher than it is here. The Euro has done nothing for the countries who went in to it.

The same economists who are predicting Britain will suffer outside the EU are also of the belief that the Euro is coming under increasing pressure as it perpetuates an environment of low growth and high unemployment. The initial crisis may have passed but longer term issues haven't. If Thursday was about joining the EU, with its mandatory acceptance of conditions such as the Euro and Schengen, there's little doubt it would be overwhelmingly defeated. The concept of central control and a planned economy died years ago. The Eurozone is, from a fiscal point of view, a planned economy. It's an idea whose time has longed passed. We need to vote to come out, start the process of dismantling the vanity project that is the Eurozone and go back to what we had, which was a Common Market where countries are free to make the economic decisions that best suit them, not that best suit Germany.

I would vote for that.

 

[urban genie]

Bojo is only in the Brexit camp to progress his Tory leadership and PM desires! True or false Big Joe?

False, he has annoyed remain Tory MP's with his snideyness of using this for his own gain, Gove has more chance of winning a leadership contest than him, but I am still betting May has played this campaign to her advantage.

Doesn't really matter who leads them they are all knobs anyway (sorry put my labour party hat on there, and it's not revelent to the referendum debate)