Leroy Sané

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domalino said:
Your figures are just wrong.

Coman will cost Bayern £28m

Renato Sanches will end up costing them £61m

Martial will cost United £57m

So for us to complete a deal for Germany's best talent for £45m total, is a perfectly good deal.
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No, Bayern paid a 7m loan fee and owe 21m if they want to buy Coman outright. The beauty about the deal is the loan fee as it gives them a good chance to have a prolonged look at him without obligating 28m to the deal.

Sanches cost Bayern 35m Euro rising to 45m Euro according to the BBC. I've seen the articles claiming it will rise to 80m but they're about as reliable as the ones that claim Tevez cost us 47m. Sanches had a 35m Euro release clause in his contract at Benfica which was activated by Bayern. The bonuses are owed to the player as part of a salary package, like any other player.

Martial, as I stated myself is a player who was hugely overpriced, I've said that already.
 
Jazzman said:
It maybe perfectly normal, but it doesn't mean it makes too much sense. Take Renato Sanches and Leroy Sane for example. It is 2 different players, playing different positions, being transferred from 2 different clubs to 2 other different clubs, under completely different circumstances. Nobody knows the actual prices of the deals, nobody knows any of the factors affecting why a player agrees to a transfer. To me this means comparing apples and bananas, not knowing any real facts, and I find it a fairly useless exercise.

The funny thing is that the comparisons are often done in such a way as to come to the conclusion that City and Txiki do not know what they are doing. It would also be possible to pick the random numbers for comparison in such a way as to reach the opposite conclusion. Take John Stones and the claimed 45 million pounds transfer fee. If you chose to compare it to the 30 million pounds Rio Ferdinand cost the Rags in 2001 it doesn't look too bad does it? You could even randomly choose to believe that the price for Stones will be 50 million and still come to the conclusion that the price is reasonable. I find it funny that so many people use these arbitrary arguments to conclude negative things about the club they claim to support.
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Brilliant, you ended on a 'claim to support city' comment. Bravo.

So by your logic, if we spent 90m on Carl Jenkinson, it wouldn't be worth talking about?
 
daztrueblue91 said:
We can't have it both ways though. A big price tag comes with big expectations. Just look at the shit Sterling has got on here despite having a more productive season than Sane and all of the other youngsters we have been linked with.

We either accept that £40 million doesn't buy you a guarenteed starter and lower our expectations of said players or we can all be unhappy about the current fees of players.

Look at John Stones for example. He has all the attributes to make it at the highest level but lost his place to Funes Mori at the back end of last season. If or when he joins us, he is going to be competing with a much better calibre of player than he did at Everton. If Otamendi recaptures his form from Spain then we are looking at one of the best CBs in Europe. Stones, Mangala and Denayer have not yet shown anything to suggest they are at a level Ota and Komps have both reached.

Signing young players with great potential who are currently good but not yet world beaters and expecting them to perform like Kun or Vinny is unrealistic and that's where the real problem lies.
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Exactly, the fee creates that expectation and I can't for the life of me understand why a club pays world class money for a player who is a project. People kick off at the fact that posters complain about fees and say things like 'it's not your money' but it has a direct negative impact on the team. Take last season, 45m went on Sterling which fairly obviously limited what we had available to spend on areas which actually required strengthening.
 
ono said:
Brilliant, you ended on a 'claim to support city' comment. Bravo.

So by your logic, if we spent 90m on Carl Jenkinson, it wouldn't be worth talking about?
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I knew it was a mistake to go into a discussion with a rhetorical master like yourself. I have not forgotten your tireless efforts together with the rest of the "Pell not Pep" gang to hunt down any ever so minor voice critical to "Pell", and then silence them by talking until their ears fell off. I take it you have not come to terms with Pep being our manager since you are so busy arguing that the players he tries to buy are not worth it. Carl Jenkinson? Ha, ha, how stupid do you think I am?
 
I'm With Stupid said:
I think Sane is a bit different from the others you mentioned. I think he's being bought to compete immediately, because he's proven he can play at this level, whereas the others are being bought as future prospects that may or may not make it. We all hope that Roberts develops into a first team player, but he's nowhere near that level yet, which is why he's playing for Celtic, and not in one of the big 4 leagues. Zinchenko again is a talented youngster, but if he was anywhere near first team standard, he'd have cost a lot more than the reported £1.7m. He'll most likely be on loan this season too, and all of the rumours about Moreno talk of him going straight out on loan to La Liga too and the Gabriel deal is reported to involve him staying there for up to a year. So yeah, I don't think it's a massive deal. It's basically the Chelsea model of transfers. We'll bring in lots of talented youngsters, loan them out until they're ready for the first teams, and hopefully still make a small profit on the players who don't reach that level.

So as it is, we've got the following:
AM: De Bruyne, Silva, Nasri
LW: Sterling, Nolito
RW: Navas, [Sane]

There's a good chance that at least one of Navas and Nasri will leave. So that would leave 6 players competing for three positions, 3 experienced and 2 younger, and one in the middle, seems like a fairly good mix.
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When you break it down like that, it is definitely easier to digest. Especially if you consider that by next summer, Pep will know exactly who isn't cut out for his team. I'm sure we will be surprised by a name or two that end up on his "naughty" list.
 
ono said:
Exactly, the fee creates that expectation and I can't for the life of me understand why a club pays world class money for a player who is a project. People kick off at the fact that posters complain about fees and say things like 'it's not your money' but it has a direct negative impact on the team. Take last season, 45m went on Sterling which fairly obviously limited what we had available to spend on areas which actually required strengthening.
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well said
 
TexasCityzen said:
When you break it down like that, it is definitely easier to digest. Especially if you consider that by next summer, Pep will know exactly who isn't cut out for his team. I'm sure we will be surprised by a name or two that end up on his "naughty" list.
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Seven player up for new contracts next season 2017/18
Yaya Toure, Fernandinho, Pablo Zabaleta, Gael Clichy, Jesus Navas, Bacary Sagna and Willy Caballero
 
Ono 45 mil euros isn't "world class" money anymore, sane is worth that based on a great season last year its not far off what the pool want for benteke. Sane is young and has plenty of resell value and player prices are only going up. Sterling wasn't as bad as everyone wants us to believe his season statistically wasn't far off martials who is the best young player in the world according to the media. And we can't buy until we sell which is why our deals have stopped in my opinion we have two good players in every position and have reached the number of foreign players we are allowed if clubs know we a desperate to sell the ludicrously low fees we get offered will somehow get worse. It was the same last year delph and sterling where signed as they are good solid players and help us with our English quota same as stones and oxford
 
You can buy before you sell, you just have to make sure you sell or just omit the ones you wanted to sell.Juve still have a few to get rid of but they keep buying anyway.
 
Don't know if it's been put up already but Marca are claiming that we've got a pre-agreement with him that we'll buy him next Summer at the lower buy out clause if we can't do a deal now.
Perhaps a prod to Schalke to accept the higher fee now?
 
As far as im aware the rules on player quotas are different in italy think they limit the amount of non eu players you can sign a year meanwhile in england its you have have to hqve 8 players trained in england in your 25 man squad, the problem with buying before you sell is the fact that teams then now you a desperate to sell which will lower the fees they are willing to offer
 
Don't forget you can have as many players as you like, in theory we could have say 50 players in our squad. 25 registered to play the prem and 25 for CL. All I believe are eligible to play in the two cup competitions. The major fault with this would be keeping players happy which is why most clubs try to aim for having identical players for the two major competitions. But if the likes of Kolorov cannot be found a club they could just be omitted from the squad lists if push comes to shove.
 
ColinLee said:
Don't know if it's been put up already but Marca are claiming that we've got a pre-agreement with him that we'll buy him next Summer at the lower buy out clause if we can't do a deal now.
Perhaps a prod to Schalke to accept the higher fee now?
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Yeah, that's here - http://www.marca.com/en/football/real-madrid/2016/07/25/579540a946163fb2718b45e2.html

That would be brilliant work - would really put the pressure on Schalke. The problem is that Sané could be the difference between Schalke getting Champions League football or not - and that would make having him next season worth €17m easily.
 
domalino said:
Yeah, that's here - http://www.marca.com/en/football/real-madrid/2016/07/25/579540a946163fb2718b45e2.html

That would be brilliant work - would really put the pressure on Schalke. The problem is that Sané could be the difference between Schalke getting Champions League football or not - and that would make having him next season worth €17m easily.
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We have seen Bayern etc work this way so it wouldn't be surprising at all if City started doing the same. Either way we get the player.
 
Genuine question, with things looking like they might be stalling in Sane transfer talks, could signing Gabriel Jesus reduce the need for us to meet Sane's valuation? 32mil euros for Jesus, isnt cheap for a 19 year old from Palmeiras, so I'm guessing we might have big plans for him, especially if he could still join us in Jan. Both seem similar type of players so if Jesus deal is done, maybe we no longer feel under pressure to meet Schalke's asking price?
 
Neville Kneville said:
We have seen Bayern etc work this way so it wouldn't be surprising at all if City started doing the same. Either way we get the player.
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The difference is Bayern have done it when they were already winning and just came off a treble.

We're trying to rebuild the squad NOW, not waste possibly 1/3 of Pep's tenure here waiting for players to arrive.
 
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