Pep's tactics

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Hardly a tactics expert but i just noticed a few things in the last couple of games, i could be wrong

I think we won both our last games before the kick of, much has been made of our inverted full backs tactic and both united and wesham setup intially to counter that from the start but were left clueless when it didnt happen and full backs played high up but not really in the inverted roles like sunderland or stoke. Where city are good is the ability to change the style within the game very quickly and teams arent really sure what they gonna get from us. Mourinio for all his experience and past experience of playing against pep was left dumbfounded in intial 40 minutes and i think this is a testament to our style of play this season

That's why Pep is a cut above the rest. I've always wondered how Mourinho has been so successful but I think I give some football managers too much credit. Some are just completely ignorant. It's like Woy in the Euro's - the whole world knew about Iceland's long throws but apparently he didn't so he put Rooney in a position to mark their target man...

Mourinho's counter attacking style has been so obvious, particularly in the big games, yet no manager in this country has managed to really find a way of defeating him when he employs it. Wenger has been done by Mourinho time and time again, always trying the passing game, and always getting caught out either on the counter or from set plays. Pep is in Mourinho's head. He spent the whole week trying to prepare for the derby, he's been watching how we've set up and he even considered we might play a false 9 and was uncertain how we'd shape up. I thought we would too.

Then Nacho starts and it's a similar shape, on paper, to that which we would play with Aguero. The difference being, as you mentioned, the full backs stayed wide to stretch the play. Pep knew Mourinho would want the game in front of his midfield and defence that would sit back and he knew movement and width would be key. Runs from deep were mentioned as being our key in this game in the pre-match thread and as we thought, their defence completely missed De Bruyne's runs and we had a lot of success. We also played the intricate stuff as showed in the build up for the second goal. In truth it was far too easy because Mourinho was expecting us to overload the middle of the pitch rather than keeping our full backs wide.
 
Ancelotti has won the league in Italy, France and England and his record only looks bad until you realise he was up against Juve buying the refs left right and centre in Serie A. Besides, Bayern are miles ahead of Dortmund and a different league to the rest.

Sorry but that's rubbish.

What about the 4 league titles in a row he lost to Inter when Juventus were relegated? What about the one he lost to Roma before calciopoli?

At PSG he took over a side which was the clear favourite and 1st in the table and managed to somehow lose the title to montpellier.

And at Real, he didn't just manage to lose to Barcelona who were having their own terrible year, he let in Atletico as well - which as nice a story as it was, they should never have been close to that Real team.

His poor record in Leagues is there because it's true. He doesn't rotate, and he doesn't keep things fresh.

Dortmund might not win the league this year, because they've had too many players in and out - but one season Ancelotti's in charge he'll fuck up and lose the league like he always does.

Still a great coach though, and he could easily win a CL while he's there.
 
However, that terrific half of football only left us 2:1 up. Plenty to work on...

I think Pep mentioned himself we haven't got the final ball yet. When we do, that first half would have yielded 3 or 4 goals, and opportunities like the counterattacks in the second half would have been put away too.

That will come though, it's only been 6 games.
 
I think Pep mentioned himself we haven't got the final ball yet. When we do, that first half would have yielded 3 or 4 goals, and opportunities like the counterattacks in the second half would have been put away too.

That will come though, it's only been 6 games.
The two things for me are final ball and the ability to play at an intense level for 90 minutes rather than a half. If we manage that we will be pretty much unstoppable, at least in the PL.
 
The two things for me are final ball and the ability to play at an intense level for 90 minutes rather than a half. If we manage that we will be pretty much unstoppable, at least in the PL.

it doesn't bother me much because pep is perfectionist. if some player, or players, can't handle his demands he'll find another ones who will. he wants to dominate and he will never be happy if he doesn't.
 
I think Pep mentioned himself we haven't got the final ball yet. When we do, that first half would have yielded 3 or 4 goals, and opportunities like the counterattacks in the second half would have been put away too.

That will come though, it's only been 6 games.
Yeah, he is taking it very seriously that the final ball is subpar in comparison to the rest of our build up play.
A bit more composure is called for and I think Pep will instill into them that they have more time than they realise on the ball.
I think that Iheanacho was hooked the other day partly as a concequence of that overambitious final ball to Sterling when DeBruyne was wide open. That is an example of how seriously he takes this matter.
 
Yeah, he is taking it very seriously that the final ball is subpar in comparison to the rest of our build up play.
A bit more composure is called for and I think Pep will instill into them that they have more time than they realise on the ball.
I think that Iheanacho was hooked the other day partly as a concequence of that overambitious final ball to Sterling when DeBruyne was wide open. That is an example of how seriously he takes this matter.

Nacho for Fernando had to be done, and looking at the players on the pitch, Iheanacho was really the only person he could have taken off when KDB was playing like that. I think it was just a pragmatic tactical change.

I know Nacho is copping some stick for that move but you have to remember he's spent most of his youth as a #10 and he's got the ability to play that pass. We want him to be confident enough to try those things, because it's the same confidence that keeps him scoring and doing brilliantly at this level.

I also think laying the blame for the goal on that move breaking down is wrong - it's not Iheanacho's fault Silva made an unnecessary foul, or that Stones and Bravo had a ridiculously unfortunate communication error from a completely harmless Rooney free kick.
 
I'd be surprised if that's possible tbh.

I don't think it's possible.

But if we get the final ball better, we won't need to, as teams will die quicker. The rags were on a 0-6 on Saturday, but inefficient final ball plus defensive howlers gave them a boost & deflated us slightly.

If we had got it right, we could have ponced our way through the 2nd half shouting 'ole' & still scored 3 or 4 more.
 
I don't think it's possible.

But if we get the final ball better, we won't need to, as teams will die quicker. The rags were on a 0-6 on Saturday, but inefficient final ball plus defensive howlers gave them a boost & deflated us slightly.

If we had got it right, we could have ponced our way through the 2nd half shouting 'ole' & still scored 3 or 4 more.
Its actually a similar idea to what brought Liverpool so much success a few seasons ago. They would come out and try and get the game over with. Fortunately we've also got a manager who has more than just that in his locker.
 
Its actually a similar idea to what brought Liverpool so much success a few seasons ago. They would come out and try and get the game over with. Fortunately we've also got a manager who has more than just that in his locker.

It appeared to me that Barca under Pep often used to profit from getting games won early & sometimes suffered if they couldn't. I remember them battering Arsenal but not putting them to bed then Nasri etc tearing them to bits. But over a season, they had enough to fight it out during the tight games & win most, possibly helped by being able to swan around for the last 20 in the easier games & take off a few stars, bring on kids etc.

I was picturing that game on Saturday happening the same later in the season, if everyone was fit, & instead of giving them a goal, we get a 3rd before half time as we probably should have.

Picture Sané fully fit, & Gabriel Jesus, coming on 2nd half with 25 mins to go.

Fucking hell.
 
Sorry but that's rubbish.

What about the 4 league titles in a row he lost to Inter when Juventus were relegated? What about the one he lost to Roma before calciopoli?

At PSG he took over a side which was the clear favourite and 1st in the table and managed to somehow lose the title to montpellier.

And at Real, he didn't just manage to lose to Barcelona who were having their own terrible year, he let in Atletico as well - which as nice a story as it was, they should never have been close to that Real team.

His poor record in Leagues is there because it's true. He doesn't rotate, and he doesn't keep things fresh.

Dortmund might not win the league this year, because they've had too many players in and out - but one season Ancelotti's in charge he'll fuck up and lose the league like he always does.

Still a great coach though, and he could easily win a CL while he's there.

Agree with you and he arguably had one of the best Milan side during that time. He always seemed a cup coach to me, but a good one. That's why i sometimes believe Pep is judged wrongly during his time at Bayern. I know he didn't win the champs league, but Bayern hadn't won back to back BL since 05-06 and had only won the domestic double 9 time before pep won it twice in 3 years. His Bayern side was a joy to watch. They are still very strong but i expect Dortmund to win it back sooner rather than later.
 
Apologies if this has already been posted but me and @Damocles are doing a series of podcasts this season on Pep's tactics for City Watch podcast. Links below.









I've been listening to these and think they're excellent! I've been wondering how you chaps think Peps' tactics will work/change when we come up against Barcelona, it would be ace if you could do a preview for that game rather than a review?!
 
I don't think it's possible.

But if we get the final ball better, we won't need to, as teams will die quicker. The rags were on a 0-6 on Saturday, but inefficient final ball plus defensive howlers gave them a boost & deflated us slightly.

If we had got it right, we could have ponced our way through the 2nd half shouting 'ole' & still scored 3 or 4 more.
Maybe its not possible for 90 minutes but look at the first 10 minutes of the second half last Saturday. Our energy levels definitely dropped and our pressing was far less effective. We could have given ourselves a real problem in that period. I put this down to the level of intensity we played at in the first half. I think you are right though, and listening to Pep, its definitely something he wants - kill the game as quickly as possible and then no need for a tense final 10 minutes. I think if Serge had played on Saturday, we would have done that.
 
I've been listening to these and think they're excellent! I've been wondering how you chaps think Peps' tactics will work/change when we come up against Barcelona, it would be ace if you could do a preview for that game rather than a review?!

Yeah that's a good idea mate. I'll talk to Damo. Oh and thanks heaps for listening.
 
Yeah that's a good idea mate. I'll talk to Damo. Oh and thanks heaps for listening.
Great idea indeed, looking forward for your next 'tactical' podcasts! I think no one would blame you if Pep somehow outsmarts your predictions, it would just add more intrigue.
 
Pep's basic template: Positional play. Control the game through the ball, build-up play from the back, and find order, structure in the formation, all through the ball, not the player. Keep finding spaces and overloads to reach the opposition box and then, players' skill & creativity come to the fore. If u lose the ball, retrieve the ball quickly to regain control of the game. Whoever has the ball, is the master of the game.

But what Most ppl or pundits dont realise (most are idiots, some are lazy) that while Pep's basic template is the same, he has far too many nuances and tactical tweaks within each game that make him the best brain in Europe. Most cant see it. So hence, they lazily like to use patronizing, condescending or outright stupid terms like tiki-taka or Barcelona football to describe his style.

Even us fans are guilty of describing City's football as Barcelona or Bayern football. Wrong. Pep constantly evolves. The football Pep played at Barcelona in the first year was not the football he played in the 2nd year and so on. So certainly, what Bayern played was not Barcelona football. And now, what City are playing is not Bayern football nor Barcelona football. Nothing can be further from the truth. Its Pep v8.0, or if u want it to be simpler, v 3.0. But the correct representation is 8.0 - Which means he never stands still. Trust me, the football we will play next year or the year later will not be the same as this year. The nuance is what sets Pep apart. The devil is in the details. It will be massive disrespect to shrink or condense Pep's thinking into just one term - tippy-tappy. Yuck!

Example of his fine tweaks in the derby:

1) No inverted full-backs, when u think that is better suited to control MU counterattacks from wide. Even Mou thought Pep would do so. But Pep knows Ibra better than most. Ibra is not a mobile forward that can occupy both CBs. So we can always hv a spare man at the back. Result: We dont need the full-backs coming in. In fact, they can push up wide to pin MU back.

2) Kelechi is not Aguero. So Pep adapts. With Aguero's ability, there are spaces that Aguero can occupy which infringe on KdB too. While Silva can adapt better to this, KdB still has to find his spaces with Aguero. So with Kelechi starting, he knew KdB can be more a 10, almost a second striker without much trouble and Silva can drop deeper for midfield control. Of course, this means Sterling has to adjust but Pep felt the benefits outweigh the negatives as Sterling can still keep Shaw honest, and that can neutralise the threat on the right.

3) When Mou brought Herrera to shore up his midfield to handle KdB and pushed Fellaini & Pogba up for route 1 tactics, Pep studied how the team coped for 5 minutes and then countered Mou by bringing Fernando on to allow Dinho to push up and then took kelechi off and made KdB a roaming false forward. So Pep was essentially asking questions of MU CBs and Herrera. We had about 4-5 solid chances to kill the game off. Pity we didnt. But that doesnt mean we alter the real story. Pep had answers for most of Mou's questions, even with our relatively handicapped squad. While Mou had only one answer for most of Pep's questions: Long balls to his rugby players.

While Pep is guilty of over-analysing or even thinking of some opponents as more intelligent than they really are, the reality is he finds tactical answers almost all the time. And all this while playing offensive, pro-active football. No coach in Europe has come close in this regard in the last 2 decades, which is unfortunate in some ways.
 
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