Referees/Officials

[MillionMilesAway]

Just watched the game again and the challenge from Fernadinho, from an angle I haven't seen before Mason is clearly seen trying to push his earpiece in his ear, what is he listening to? It's his decision and clearly he is making up his mind as the Burnley players surround him when he starts to listen in his left ear and then makes his decision. Now why is this? Was the same with Taylor at the Luiz challenge on Aguero waiting till he heard advice from his assistants, now a theory is that by waiting few seconds there is the opportunity for another official to view an incident again and relay another opinion.
All conspiracy but is very questionable and would be interesting to get an answer as to who and why they are doing it.

I've said before that it's the not knowing that is creating the chatter, e.g (and I'm not specifically talking about Ferny here):

Ref: "Lino, that looked two footed and high to me. Did he hit the man with his studs? Card colour advice please."
Lino: "got the ball with one foot, but impetus took him studs first into the man. Red card."

That is a perfectly acceptable exchange, and would probably be considered to be good reffing if he doesn't have clear sight of where the contact was.

 

[Chipmeister]

That's a fair scenario, but it's not the only scenario is it, and that is the crux of this whole debate. It could well be the 4th official with a manager in his ear who influences the decision or something even more sinister.

 

[SWP's back]

A foul in that part of the box can never be a red card? What nonsense. The type of challenge had a bearing on the colour of a card too.
So only Jose and rag fans thought it was? NO-ONE else at all? Right, ok....

And my point was that if there's an agenda against City, it would have been given. Wasn't arguing whether it was or not.

It wasn't even foul so how could it have been deemed dangerous play?

There's agendas and agendas though aren't there.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

That's a fair scenario, but it's not the only scenario is it, and that is the crux of this whole debate. It could well be the 4th official with a manager in his ear who influences the decision or something even more sinister.

Quite - see my first line!
What it is is something that we cannot prove.

I'm a little surprised that no player or the sideline gang have heard anything untoward, or if they have, it's been buried. Surely someone would point a camera at the 4th official to see if he says anything.

 

[SWP's back]

The referee if well within his rights to receive assistance from all 3 assistant referees.

There's not a chance in hell the ref card or any other decision was based on video replays.

 

[St.Pauli support]

Then you should, like myself, be very concerned about Lee Mason's performance in the Burnley game:
Blowing the whistle LATE for the foul on a City player when Navas was through on goal was scandalous.
As was continually allowing Burnley players to leave something on City players after the ball was gone, allowing Burnley players to use City players as step ladders for getting to balls in the air and a definite bias in letting Burnley hard-tackles go but declaring City ones as fouls.
Classic referee match fixing tactics.

That's exactly what I have watched, and everybody else who has ever played this game or at least is unbiased.

The reaction of players and also of Pep is, that they don't feel fairly treated by the judge and get emotional.
What I don't really understand is the reaction in the ground. When obviously scandalous decisions happen in German grounds, the former peaceful place gets wild as everybody feels winded up. The whole crowd gets on the ref's back as long as he goes on like that and the atmosphere really gets aggressive all around the place. Until the ref clearly shows that he is on the neutral side again.

Why is that different in England (nowadays?)? Is it similar to the reasons described in the "Etihad amtosphere" thread?

I even think the crowd's non-reaction is the reason for Pep's and the players's frustration about their own "supporters" as they feel left alone especially when things are getting tough.

 

[BlueAnorak]

That's exactly what I have watched, and everybody else who has ever played this game or at least is unbiased.

The reaction of players and also of Pep is, that they don't feel fairly treated by the judge and get emotional.
What I don't really understand is the reaction in the ground. When obviously scandalous decisions happen in German grounds, the former peaceful place gets wild as everybody feels winded up. The whole crowd gets on the ref's back as long as he goes on like that and the atmosphere really gets aggressive all around the place. Until the ref clearly shows that he is on the neutral side again.

Why is that different in England (nowadays?)? Is it similar to the reasons described in the "Etihad amtosphere" thread?

I even think the crowd's non-reaction is the reason for Pep's and the players's frustration about their own "supporters" as they feel left alone especially when things are getting tough.

In this case, post sending off the crowd were pretty reved up. After the Silva foul the 3 minute "banker" chant followed by traditional anti ref Fayre was pretty damned loud.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Just watched the game again and the challenge from Fernadinho, from an angle I haven't seen before Mason is clearly seen trying to push his earpiece in his ear, what is he listening to? It's his decision and clearly he is making up his mind as the Burnley players surround him when he starts to listen in his left ear and then makes his decision. Now why is this? Was the same with Taylor at the Luiz challenge on Aguero waiting till he heard advice from his assistants, now a theory is that by waiting few seconds there is the opportunity for another official to view an incident again and relay another opinion.
All conspiracy but is very questionable and would be interesting to get an answer as to who and why they are doing it.

I used to like refs pausing for a few moments before making up their minds, but we see now what the fuckers are upto. Ref: Can you see what happened their, Blind Pugh? 4th Off: not really, Mr. Mason but dya want the blue shirt binning? Ref: Just as I thought. Fuck off, Ferny, early bath yer dirty bastard!"

 

[blue b4 the moon]

This is most naive thing I've ever read. They have to be reasonably subtle about it or they would soon get called out.

How would you do it? I would look to stop breakaways after a foul by not playing advantage when we were attacking but not for the other team. I would deny penalties safe in the knowledge that they would not be debated on TV but not for the other team. I would not flag for offside even when there is clear daylight between players but not for the other team. I would book players for two footed reckless tackles, safe in the knowledge that it cannot be looked at due to a law the FA refuse to changes, but send off players from the other team.

I would offer penalties when the game is already won and start referring fairly once my influence ons the game had ended due to the scoreline. That's how I would do it. That's how Mason, Taylor, Clattenburg etc operate. And it's bent, there is an agenda and the whole thing stinks of Scudamore needing a strong United for his product.

Spot on, I give you Chris Foy, Norwich 1 City 6 as exhibit A.

 

[caseball]

When teams like Burnley and Watford systematically push the limits at the Etihad from the start, you have to suspect that there's a feeling within the Premier league that you can get away with murder at our place.

 

[blueinsa]

Frank having a week off so it's BurnCK turn pmsl.

 

[Hart of the Matter]

Is there an agenda? - yes- to keep the multi billion gravy train on track. Is their a threat to this? Yes- main global players (Man united-Liverpool) under achieving. Product is tarnished and China looming. Who needs this product to succeed ? - FA, Prem, Media, refs etc.
All this before we get into the billions involved in betting. It would be naive, stupid or thick even to believe the game was not corrupt.
In fact we know it is corrupt (Italy, FIFA , UEFA, child abuse and back handers).
We are a big problem ( not because we are City but because we don't sell stories) we have seen concerted effort to nibble us off the pitch, why is it so ridiculouse to think we would not be nobbled on it as well. This is not paranoia. It is stating the bleeding obvious!!!

 

[crazyg]

Spot on, I give you Chris Foy, Norwich 1 City 6 as exhibit A.

And I present exhibit B: Mike Jones, Southampton 1 City 3

 

[St.Pauli support]

In the Bundesliga refs are being asked post match about strange decisions and most of them would comment on them.
Many times they admit having made the wrong call and apologize for their mistake.
Does that happen in England too?
Everybody knows it's not an easy job and mistakes can happen but at least admit when you are wrong. Really helps.

In case of Dinho, Francis and others it's just a misleading interpretation of rules which would lead to a benchmark that is not easy to follow.
If those are red cards, what is a yellow then? And why are those yellows not given in numbers every match in every league?

Next problem of those very questionable red cards are a minmum ban of 3 matches or even more - for such a foul?? Madness.

Dinho got straight red because he is Dinho and has a history. He is evaluated by a different measure. That's not in a sense of fair play.

 

[MillionMilesAway]

In the Bundesliga refs are being asked post match about strange decisions and most of them would comment on them.
Many times they admit having made the wrong call and apologize for their mistake.
Does that happen in England too?
Everybody knows it's not an easy job and mistakes can happen but at least admit when you are wrong. Really helps.

In case of Dinho, Francis and others it's just a misleading interpretation of rules which would lead to a benchmark that is not easy to follow.
If those are red cards, what is a yellow then? And why are those yellows not given in numbers every match in every league?

Next problem of those very questionable red cards are a minmum ban of 3 matches or even more - for such a foul?? Madness.

Dinho got straight red because he is Dinho and has a history. He is evaluated by a different measure. That's not in a sense of fair play.

Almost never! Refs are almost never heard from here.
Is refs in the Bundesliga commenting after the match relatively recent, or has it been going on for years?

 

[manchester blue]

Is it the same wanker who allowed that Spurs full back a good three yards of daylight last season. Anyone who gets a yard plus offside wrong would be out of the door. And before the goal is awarded it should be replayed. Offside is the easiest thing in the entire laws of the game that would be seen as correct or incorrect. Wonder why it's taking so long to implement some kind of video trialling?

Rhetorical?

 

[hertsblue]

See Dean has been rewarded for his performance with the Live on tele cup game for Spurs this weekend

 

[BlueAnorak]

Is there an agenda? - yes- to keep the multi billion gravy train on track. Is their a threat to this? Yes- main global players (Man united-Liverpool) under achieving. Product is tarnished and China looming. Who needs this product to succeed ? - FA, Prem, Media, refs etc.
All this before we get into the billions involved in betting. It would be naive, stupid or thick even to believe the game was not corrupt.
In fact we know it is corrupt (Italy, FIFA , UEFA, child abuse and back handers).
We are a big problem ( not because we are City but because we don't sell stories) we have seen concerted effort to nibble us off the pitch, why is it so ridiculouse to think we would not be nobbled on it as well. This is not paranoia. It is stating the bleeding obvious!!!

Spot on.

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

Rhetorical?

Absolutely! And the answer will be the same for why they are still dragging their Rag feet!

 

[CrownPointBlue]

Even if the game is bent as fuck and there is a massive conspiracy between the media and ref's. It is our own ineptitude that has seen us in the position we are currently in.

There is absolutely no excuse for not killing off Chelsea when we should have, for missing penalties, for lacks of discipline which rightfully see our players sent off (regardless of them being frustrated), for our keeper being unable to save a ball and for school boy errors from our defenders.

I am not going to criticise refs till we fet our own house in order as it is not their mistakes that have cost us the most, it is our own.

Whilst I very much of the same view NW,I also don't think we can continue to allow the level of inconsistancy & incompetence of referees & officials to continue unchallenged.

If fans of all clubs could agree to work together to highlight their frustrations through orchestrated days of protest / disruption that would be broadcast world wide then the FA BBC PL etc would start to take notice. Individuals at individual clubs won't work. All fans have issues,and grievances & the first fans to start a push back agin all the shit we've been dealt will start a collective response.

West Ham & City...tennis ball disruption of the BBC cup match on prime time to would be a great place to start.