2024 Grand National 13th April

Slipper One said:
You’re obviously quite entitled to your point of view Hilts, but I do find it primarily based on emotion and not enough on fact or understanding.

On the whole, horses are bred for human use, much the same as cattle, sheep, and pigs to name a few. No use for them, no horses, it’s as simple as that.

The vision of happy horses frolicking freely around the countryside is laughable to be honest.

I can understand your disappointment regarding the fact that horses occasionally die in racing, but contrary to your belief, you’re not on your own, because the vast majority interested in racing feel the same.

However, horses don’t need to be competing to find an untimely death, I feel you just don’t get to hear of them.

A few weeks ago a horse named Highfield Princess died following an accident in her stall, further back in time Viking Flagship earned a long and happy retirement, but broke a leg while being exercised and Limestone Lad recently died at the age of 32. Eldar Eldarov recently hurt his neck from a stalls issue at the start of a race and the owners flew in two specialists from the US to assess and operate on him. He’ll never race again and probably wouldn’t handle going to stud as a result of his injuries.

Poor Red Rum was inexcusably and brutally made to race in the Grand National (a much more difficult race in those days) FIVE TIMES!! It’s obvious he disliked it, because of those five runs, he won it three times and came second twice. For some horses the challenges of the Grand National bring out the best in horses.

Instances like this are common throughout the sport of horse racing.

There is a farm not far from me where there is a large field full of horses, every single one of them is destined for slaughter. When they have gone, there will be another seventy or hundred to replace them.

The Racehorse Owners Association have a very robust program for ex-racehorses called the Retraining Of Racehorses and many, many have gone on to have meaningful retirements in other fields such as dressage and showjumping, but of course you don’t agree with that either.

What would you do with ex-racehorses (or any horses used by humans), just let them run wild to fend for themselves or slaughter them and just keep a few in a zoo?

As to whether horses enjoy racing. Well, you can’t make one run if it doesn’t want to and there have been numerous occasions where horses found it difficult to settle into retirement after a life of racing and have been brought back to race again.

You have a total lack of understanding regarding owners and trainers. Of course there are some bad apples in the sport, as in any sport, but aside from those few, horses are treated with the utmost respect and loving care. Athletes like Kevin De Bryne and Erling Haaland etc have the best dietary and medical care and racehorses are no different. It’s in the owners/trainers best interest to make sure their horses are in the best physical and mental condition as possible.

You need to do two things with regard to the whip before you make wild and inaccurate comments. First, familiarize yourself with the rules and how they have been changed and second, get your hands on a present day whip and judge the impact on a 1200lb horse under racing conditions. I’ve probably put this argument forward before, but when I’m playing football and I get a kick, I hardly feel it, if at all. If you were to apply that same kick to me while I was stood in front of you, I’m in no doubt it would hurt. It’s the same with the whip.

Just a comment to your point, “My view is always, would we treat humans this way?” We treat humans despicably. People have their lives prolonged under medical care, many under extreme and constant pain, yet if we treated a dog or horse like that, we’d be locked up!!

If you (and others) were TRULY CONCERNED about animal cruelty, then you should really focus your efforts on genuine cruelty such as the multitude of puppy farms and dog fighting. Perhaps that’s a little more dangerous and having any success from the safety of a keyboard is more difficult, especially compared to having a cheap and easy bash at horse racing.
Click to expand...


No it's based on sound logic unlike yours I'm afraid

1. The other animals you mentioned are for food little men don't sit on their backs with whips.

2. Horses away from race courses? And? Wtf is the relevance of that. Should humans be forced to run across a motorway because sometimes people get run over on a street. Stupid logic.

3. Horses like a challenge and it brings the best out of them? Put those Horses on a start line on there own see how many go running around the courses jumping fences. None. Stupid logic.

4 weight of horse irrelevant. Skin and nerves are. Stupid logic.

If the whip didn't hurt it wouldn't be used. Jockeys still break the rules.

5. By the way even this morning racing club bloke said we are making it safer this year for the benefit of jockey and horse. Therefore they accept it must be dangerous but every year they claim they do their best. Why should we believe them in 2024 when they could have done more in 1904 1954 1994 .......

At the end of the day you are making an animal do a dangerous sport for the enjoyment of humans. Anything else is bollocks as your attempted deflections have proved.

Now stop replying to me and we will leave it. You have no justification outside of pure selfishness.

I apologise for any spelling or grammar mistakes I'm in a mad rush
 
Last edited:
Slipper One said:
You’re obviously quite entitled to your point of view Hilts, but I do find it primarily based on emotion and not enough on fact or understanding.

On the whole, horses are bred for human use, much the same as cattle, sheep, and pigs to name a few. No use for them, no horses, it’s as simple as that.

The vision of happy horses frolicking freely around the countryside is laughable to be honest.

I can understand your disappointment regarding the fact that horses occasionally die in racing, but contrary to your belief, you’re not on your own, because the vast majority interested in racing feel the same.

However, horses don’t need to be competing to find an untimely death, I feel you just don’t get to hear of them.

A few weeks ago a horse named Highfield Princess died following an accident in her stall, further back in time Viking Flagship earned a long and happy retirement, but broke a leg while being exercised and Limestone Lad recently died at the age of 32. Eldar Eldarov recently hurt his neck from a stalls issue at the start of a race and the owners flew in two specialists from the US to assess and operate on him. He’ll never race again and probably wouldn’t handle going to stud as a result of his injuries.

Poor Red Rum was inexcusably and brutally made to race in the Grand National (a much more difficult race in those days) FIVE TIMES!! It’s obvious he disliked it, because of those five runs, he won it three times and came second twice. For some horses the challenges of the Grand National bring out the best in horses.

Instances like this are common throughout the sport of horse racing.

There is a farm not far from me where there is a large field full of horses, every single one of them is destined for slaughter. When they have gone, there will be another seventy or hundred to replace them.

The Racehorse Owners Association have a very robust program for ex-racehorses called the Retraining Of Racehorses and many, many have gone on to have meaningful retirements in other fields such as dressage and showjumping, but of course you don’t agree with that either.

What would you do with ex-racehorses (or any horses used by humans), just let them run wild to fend for themselves or slaughter them and just keep a few in a zoo?

As to whether horses enjoy racing. Well, you can’t make one run if it doesn’t want to and there have been numerous occasions where horses found it difficult to settle into retirement after a life of racing and have been brought back to race again.

You have a total lack of understanding regarding owners and trainers. Of course there are some bad apples in the sport, as in any sport, but aside from those few, horses are treated with the utmost respect and loving care. Athletes like Kevin De Bryne and Erling Haaland etc have the best dietary and medical care and racehorses are no different. It’s in the owners/trainers best interest to make sure their horses are in the best physical and mental condition as possible.

You need to do two things with regard to the whip before you make wild and inaccurate comments. First, familiarize yourself with the rules and how they have been changed and second, get your hands on a present day whip and judge the impact on a 1200lb horse under racing conditions. I’ve probably put this argument forward before, but when I’m playing football and I get a kick, I hardly feel it, if at all. If you were to apply that same kick to me while I was stood in front of you, I’m in no doubt it would hurt. It’s the same with the whip.

Just a comment to your point, “My view is always, would we treat humans this way?” We treat humans despicably. People have their lives prolonged under medical care, many under extreme and constant pain, yet if we treated a dog or horse like that, we’d be locked up!!

If you (and others) were TRULY CONCERNED about animal cruelty, then you should really focus your efforts on genuine cruelty such as the multitude of puppy farms and dog fighting. Perhaps that’s a little more dangerous and having any success from the safety of a keyboard is more difficult, especially compared to having a cheap and easy bash at horse racing.
Click to expand...
In a nutshell, the loonies on here need to read and understand this.
 
hilts said:
No it's based on sound logic unlike yours I'm afraid

1. The other animals you mentioned are for food little men don't sit on their backs with whips.

2. Horses away from race courses? And? Wtf is the relevance of that. Should humans be forced to run across a motorway because sometimes people get run over on a street. Stupid logic.

3. Horses like a challenge and it brings the best out of them? Put those Horses on a start line on there own see how many go running around the courses jumping fences. None. Stupid logic.

4 weight of horse irrelevant. Skin and nerves are. Stupid logic.

If the whip didn't hurt it wouldn't be used. Jockeys still break the rules.

5. By the way even this morning racing club bloke said we are making it safer this year for the benefit of jockey and horse. Therefore they accept it must be dangerous but every year they claim they do their best. Why should we believe them in 2024 when they could have done more in 1904 1954 1994 .......

At the end of the day you are making an animal do a dangerous sport for the enjoyment of humans. Anything else is bollocks as your attempted deflections have proved.

Now stop replying to me and we will leave it. You have no justification outside of pure selfishness.

I apologise for any spelling or grammar mistakes I'm in a mad rush
Click to expand...
No need to apologize on your spelling and grammar Hiltz, I'm not here to judge you on that, only to comment on what I consider your narrow minded and emotional opinion.

It’s interesting how a person can read something, yet due to a blinkered mindset interpret the information in a totally inaccurate and biased way.

As in many sports and areas in life, there are issues and possibilities for improvement, but that doesn’t mean that overall it is bad.

By the way, how is the stopping of genuine cruelty in puppy farms and dog fighting coming along?
 
Slipper One said:
No need to apologize on your spelling and grammar Hiltz, I'm not here to judge you on that, only to comment on what I consider your narrow minded and emotional opinion.

It’s interesting how a person can read something, yet due to a blinkered mindset interpret the information in a totally inaccurate and biased way.

As in many sports and areas in life, there are issues and possibilities for improvement, but that doesn’t mean that overall it is bad.

By the way, how is the stopping of genuine cruelty in puppy farms and dog fighting coming along?
Click to expand...

Checks thread title and wonders the relevance, good old whataboutery when a debate has been lost.
 
hilts said:
Checks thread title and wonders the relevance, good old whataboutery when a debate has been lost.
Click to expand...
Yes, I guess a comment like, "I see horse killing season is with us again, does it ever go away?" did detract from the thread title, but I won't hold that against you.

How on earth has the debate been lost? The points I made were quite accurate and relevant to your narrow minded and inaccurate opinions.

Aside from that, how about answering the question about your efforts against genuine cruelty. I know it's not technically on topic, but I can't be arsed with starting a separate thread to address it. I'd like to think you had more depth than simply being a keyboard warrior and were actually committed to your cruelty stance.
 
Slipper One said:
Yes, I guess a comment like, "I see horse killing season is with us again, does it ever go away?" did detract from the thread title, but I won't hold that against you.

How on earth has the debate been lost? The points I made were quite accurate and relevant to your narrow minded and inaccurate opinions.

Aside from that, how about answering the question about your efforts against genuine cruelty. I know it's not technically on topic, but I can't be arsed with starting a separate thread to address it. I'd like to think you had more depth than simply being a keyboard warrior and were actually committed to your cruelty stance.
Click to expand...

The grand national has horses so it was on topic doh!

I'm against all cruelty to animals but things can become complicated morally, I said this pages ago do keep up. There is no need to breed race horses for sport, tis as simple as that. It's only you trying to argue against a very obvious point.

You either think it's incorrect to breed horses that will suffer abuse and sometimes death or you don't care because its in your interests not to.

Your whataboutery doesn't change this, dead animals don't bother you but losing an argument on a football forum seems to.

Odd fellow.
 
supercity88 said:
I get your concerns over their welfare. Lots get killed that don't make the cut as racehorses. We don't kill horses to eat them in this country, but if they were allowed to run wild and free we would have to cull them to control numbers. There's no scenario where horses get to live wild and free without human interference sadly.
Click to expand...
They do in the yukon , loads of wild horses there
 
kaz7 said:
They do in the yukon , loads of wild horses there
Click to expand...

The Yukon is twice the size of the UK and I am sure they cull plenty of the horses to control numbers. Horses breed like rabbits and you have to control their populations.
 
hilts said:
The grand national has horses so it was on topic doh!

I'm against all cruelty to animals but things can become complicated morally, I said this pages ago do keep up. There is no need to breed race horses for sport, tis as simple as that. It's only you trying to argue against a very obvious point.

You either think it's incorrect to breed horses that will suffer abuse and sometimes death or you don't care because its in your interests not to.

Your whataboutery doesn't change this, dead animals don't bother you but losing an argument on a football forum seems to.

Odd fellow.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what you mean by 'complicated morally', you are either against cruelty or not.........or is it selective cruelty and what social media gees you up on? When there are genuine issues of cruelty, you focus on horse racing.

In the 4.05 over the National fences, it was apparent early on that Reikers Island wasn't enjoying things and was pulled up. If a horse doesn't want to do it, there's nothing a jockey can do to make it, whip or no whip.

If you watched the 3.30 at Aintree, you would have seen a great finish where three horses gave everything to the line. I can assure you that although they had endured a great physical effort, none were at all distressed afterwards, actually very much the opposite.

Your points about horses being raced purely for money and entertainment, with the welfare of the horse ignored are well wide of the mark.

On the point of money, although there are considerable sums to be gained from racing, most owners don't actually profit from it. Another of your points that is exaggerated and inaccurate.

I wasn't aware that I was losing an argument. To the best of my ability, I've made points based on fact and not wild emotion.

“you don’t care because it’s in your interests not to.”

I'm sorry, but again you are simply ignoring what is said because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I said earlier that the vast majority of people connected with racing certainly do share your feelings about the death of a horse and I would be one of those.

As you don't believe humans should use horses for entertainment, I will ask you again, what would you do with the horse population that presently exists which is solely for human use?
 
Watched the race over the national fences and definitely safer now than ever, fences looked massive but very forgiving if the horses went through them they fell apart so much safer.
Horses still fell but got up and I don't think they were none the worse for the fall.
Bit like football has become less blood and thunder horse racing has also changed.
I loved the national and football back in the 70's and the country seemed to stop for the grand national and the FA cup final but don't seem the same now, could be the era we live in now with record and catch up available.
 
Slipper One said:
I'm not sure what you mean by 'complicated morally', you are either against cruelty or not.........or is it selective cruelty and what social media gees you up on? When there are genuine issues of cruelty, you focus on horse racing.

In the 4.05 over the National fences, it was apparent early on that Reikers Island wasn't enjoying things and was pulled up. If a horse doesn't want to do it, there's nothing a jockey can do to make it, whip or no whip.

If you watched the 3.30 at Aintree, you would have seen a great finish where three horses gave everything to the line. I can assure you that although they had endured a great physical effort, none were at all distressed afterwards, actually very much the opposite.

Your points about horses being raced purely for money and entertainment, with the welfare of the horse ignored are well wide of the mark.

On the point of money, although there are considerable sums to be gained from racing, most owners don't actually profit from it. Another of your points that is exaggerated and inaccurate.

I wasn't aware that I was losing an argument. To the best of my ability, I've made points based on fact and not wild emotion.

“you don’t care because it’s in your interests not to.”

I'm sorry, but again you are simply ignoring what is said because it doesn't fit your narrative.

I said earlier that the vast majority of people connected with racing certainly do share your feelings about the death of a horse and I would be one of those.

As you don't believe humans should use horses for entertainment, I will ask you again, what would you do with the horse population that presently exists which is solely for human use?
Click to expand...

Yep you're definitely a fucking idiot and going on ignore. Never done that before, congrats on being the dumbest poster ever on here. Some accomplishment.
 
mackenzie said:
It's like sodding Groundhog Day on here. We have the same argument about the Grand National every year, and have done for years.
Click to expand...
Just wait until St George's Day.

It makes City Bingo pale into insignificance

I'm going for

White van man
Gammon
Little Englanders
Last Night of the Proms
Racist
He wasn't even English
Flag waving
GBNews

Is that a full house?
 
hilts said:
Yep you're definitely a fucking idiot and going on ignore. Never done that before, congrats on being the dumbest poster ever on here. Some accomplishment.
Click to expand...
OK, no problem.

Thank you for the accolade as the 'dumbest poster ever' though. I consider that quite an achievement, especially when compared to some of the competition I was up against and I'll give an honourable mention to some of your efforts in that as well. Surely you must have run me a close second?
What happens next, do I get a medal, plaque, my name highlighted every time I post? I'm just unsure.

Anyway, that aside. I see your dilemma, you don't have any answers to my questions, but that's not a problem, I think I know the answers anyway.

Now I'm going to go and get myself a drink to celebrate my award, I'm dead chuffed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Unread Posts

Don't have an account? Register now and see fewer ads!

SIGN UP
Back
Top