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Arsenal thread 2011/12
- Thread starter Mancio
- Start date
GStar
Well-Known Member
Re: Wenger : the fiasco ?
Can't read.
I said currently... 5 years seems pretty current, you've won as much as we have. (3x Thomas Cook trophy) ;)
I'm guessing you're about 14, Wenger versus Mancini? Did anyone mention that... grow up.
gooney said:wenger has won trophies and is one of the most respected managers in the world, and far more respected than mancini in the football worldGStar said:A great manager wins trophies.
A great manager has a plan b,c etc
A great manager can adapt and be proactive
Wenger is currently none of these.
Can't read.
I said currently... 5 years seems pretty current, you've won as much as we have. (3x Thomas Cook trophy) ;)
I'm guessing you're about 14, Wenger versus Mancini? Did anyone mention that... grow up.
Re: Wenger : the fiasco ?
Ramsey £5million, Walcott £9.8million(S.hampton needed the money so we rightly/wrongly screwed them with a reduced final installment, should have been £12million). Nasri was wanted by a few other teams before we got him, hardly a kid is he.
We spent as well as other teams around us in the old days without going mad like Chelsea or United. All within our means.That's all he is saying.
I think if we'd taken out huge loans we couldn't pay back or had spent money well beyond our means then you would have cried foul and rightly so.
I personally don't care you've got a lot of money no one cared when Chelsea got a sugar daddy hours before certain bankruptcy would have seen them relegated to the 4th division.
The team stopped winning trophies when we decided to go wholesale for technical players and no grit in midfield ala Vieira/Obi Mikel/DeJong. Song looks like the answer to that but it's still early days. At the very least Wilshire looks like the real deal.
Whilst you were building your academy we were buying, because Wenger had decided the academy graduates at the time were not to the technical standard of what he wanted so he used the money we took of Real, £22million from the sale of Anelka built a new training ground and academy and as he said at the time it would take 10 years to produce players of the standard he wanted.
Anelka was sold in 1999. The players coming through who have been together since about 9yrs old and are now coming through are Wilshire, Gibbs,Eastmond,Emmanuel-Thomas,Lansbury,Cruise,Aneke.
Wenger has an opinion on all clubs because he stupidly answers every question the rag papers ask him and they know he will hence why they do it. Personally believe me most Gooners wish he would just no-comment the more wind-up questions.
cheekybids said:The only thing that bugs me about Wenger is the myth that he doesn't spend a lot of money and likes to nurture talent. How much was the likes of Henry, Wilthord, Reyes etc compared to what most other clubs spend.
Over the years Wenger has spent an absolute shit load on players and when we were nurturing players through our academies, Wenger was picking up all the best talent for a pretty penny. I have no problem with that but he seems to have a lot to say about other clubs spending big yet we never cried that it was unfair. A real expert would say that the time they stopped winning things was when money got tight with the new stadium but that said his teams play some beautiful football and his spats with baconface were always enjoyable.
Meanwhile lets just enjoy the latest kids he's nurtured like Ramsey, Walcott, Nasri etc who all cost more than 10m
Ramsey £5million, Walcott £9.8million(S.hampton needed the money so we rightly/wrongly screwed them with a reduced final installment, should have been £12million). Nasri was wanted by a few other teams before we got him, hardly a kid is he.
We spent as well as other teams around us in the old days without going mad like Chelsea or United. All within our means.That's all he is saying.
I think if we'd taken out huge loans we couldn't pay back or had spent money well beyond our means then you would have cried foul and rightly so.
I personally don't care you've got a lot of money no one cared when Chelsea got a sugar daddy hours before certain bankruptcy would have seen them relegated to the 4th division.
The team stopped winning trophies when we decided to go wholesale for technical players and no grit in midfield ala Vieira/Obi Mikel/DeJong. Song looks like the answer to that but it's still early days. At the very least Wilshire looks like the real deal.
Whilst you were building your academy we were buying, because Wenger had decided the academy graduates at the time were not to the technical standard of what he wanted so he used the money we took of Real, £22million from the sale of Anelka built a new training ground and academy and as he said at the time it would take 10 years to produce players of the standard he wanted.
Anelka was sold in 1999. The players coming through who have been together since about 9yrs old and are now coming through are Wilshire, Gibbs,Eastmond,Emmanuel-Thomas,Lansbury,Cruise,Aneke.
Wenger has an opinion on all clubs because he stupidly answers every question the rag papers ask him and they know he will hence why they do it. Personally believe me most Gooners wish he would just no-comment the more wind-up questions.
Re: Wenger : the fiasco ?
I've always admired Arsenal for the way they play. But what we saw today was cheating and conning of a weak referee. Fabregas's attempt to play on the De Jong hysteria was a disgrace. You'd think he'd treat a fellow professional with a bit more respect. they may won the game, but we will win the war. Not impressed with them today and we will be stronger for the experienceThe Fat el Hombre said:He's a top class manager. Just needs to loosen the purse strings a little. It really is that simple
Re: Wenger : the fiasco ?
Is there any point in debunking at least 2 of those statements. Or are you limiting yourself to just the last 5 years.
If you are then fine, but if not then his record speaks for itself. As far as plan B/C is concerned, we got Chamakh because we don't have a big man upfront. If you've watched some of our games this season you'll notice we are not averse to a bit of hoofing especially away from home.
Not adaptable..., the way we played in the days when we won the league is the way Chavski play now with big strong athletes. Wenger's adapted to a more spanish model of small technical players but until he wins a trophy with this system, it won't be acknowledged.<br /><br />-- Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:01 pm --<br /><br />
Being a tad precious here onsidering that's what Arsenal players are usually accused of. By the way noticed Silva likes a roll around on the floor a bit as well. Must be a spanish thing. Fabregas is not the first player to try to get a fellow professional sent off and will not be the last. If you can tell me that at the end of the season at least one City player won't have done the same thing then you are deluding yourself.
De Jong and respect for fellow profs went out the window in the final of the World cup.
GStar said:A great manager wins trophies.
A great manager has a plan b,c etc
A great manager can adapt and be proactive
Wenger is currently none of these.
Is there any point in debunking at least 2 of those statements. Or are you limiting yourself to just the last 5 years.
If you are then fine, but if not then his record speaks for itself. As far as plan B/C is concerned, we got Chamakh because we don't have a big man upfront. If you've watched some of our games this season you'll notice we are not averse to a bit of hoofing especially away from home.
Not adaptable..., the way we played in the days when we won the league is the way Chavski play now with big strong athletes. Wenger's adapted to a more spanish model of small technical players but until he wins a trophy with this system, it won't be acknowledged.<br /><br />-- Sun Oct 24, 2010 11:01 pm --<br /><br />
Marvin said:I've always admired Arsenal for the way they play. But what we saw today was cheating and conning of a weak referee. Fabregas's attempt to play on the De Jong hysteria was a disgrace. You'd think he'd treat a fellow professional with a bit more respect. they may won the game, but we will win the war. Not impressed with them today and we will be stronger for the experienceThe Fat el Hombre said:He's a top class manager. Just needs to loosen the purse strings a little. It really is that simple
Being a tad precious here onsidering that's what Arsenal players are usually accused of. By the way noticed Silva likes a roll around on the floor a bit as well. Must be a spanish thing. Fabregas is not the first player to try to get a fellow professional sent off and will not be the last. If you can tell me that at the end of the season at least one City player won't have done the same thing then you are deluding yourself.
De Jong and respect for fellow profs went out the window in the final of the World cup.
Re: Wenger : the fiasco ?
A great manager builds a club and takes it to the next level. Wenger has been doing this since 5 years. Not every club is backed by a sugar-daddy. We'll win trophies when the time is right. If you ask me, after a couple of seasons.GStar said:A great manager wins trophies.
A great manager has a plan b,c etc
A great manager can adapt and be proactive
Wenger is currently none of these.
tweetstreet
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 24 Feb 2010
- Messages
- 723
Re: Wenger : the fiasco ?
judge him on what he's done/does not what he says!
He's delivered trophies and he's delivered a self sufficient club! What more do you want?
If it was the premiership of financial fair play and best players then arsenal would be streets ahead. If i had the money i could invest £1,000,000 in my local welsh premier side and win the title for the next 5 years but id rather see them use local talent or develop players for £50k and do it,
Honestly would any city fan rather some rich bloke bought success for you or would you rather a talented manager who brought success? £300M v £30M and the same result>
It's now becoming who's got the richest owner not whose got the best squad, manager, scouts, etc:
City and Chelsea slowly ruining the game. As much as I hate to say it Spurs are becoming hte future. And if titles continue to be bought i Will consider the premier league to b a title without Chelski and Man Sheikh City,
Earn success don't buy it
judge him on what he's done/does not what he says!
He's delivered trophies and he's delivered a self sufficient club! What more do you want?
If it was the premiership of financial fair play and best players then arsenal would be streets ahead. If i had the money i could invest £1,000,000 in my local welsh premier side and win the title for the next 5 years but id rather see them use local talent or develop players for £50k and do it,
Honestly would any city fan rather some rich bloke bought success for you or would you rather a talented manager who brought success? £300M v £30M and the same result>
It's now becoming who's got the richest owner not whose got the best squad, manager, scouts, etc:
City and Chelsea slowly ruining the game. As much as I hate to say it Spurs are becoming hte future. And if titles continue to be bought i Will consider the premier league to b a title without Chelski and Man Sheikh City,
Earn success don't buy it
persvenality cult
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 1 May 2008
- Messages
- 2,855
Re: Wenger : the fiasco ?
The 'transitional period' has been going on for 5 years now. I honestly think he's lost his appetite for the gritty business of winning trophies. He's developed an 'aesthetic', and an 'ethic', that please him too much. Improving is what drives him on; not winning. Rather than go all out, try and fail, he will keep doing what he knows he can do every time; take good young players, get them into the top four and out of the group stages of the champs league. He'd have to make too many 'compromises' to actually win, and that's probably beneath him.
pinarina said:A great manager builds a club and takes it to the next level. Wenger has been doing this since 5 years. Not every club is backed by a sugar-daddy. We'll win trophies when the time is right. If you ask me, after a couple of seasons.GStar said:A great manager wins trophies.
A great manager has a plan b,c etc
A great manager can adapt and be proactive
Wenger is currently none of these.
The 'transitional period' has been going on for 5 years now. I honestly think he's lost his appetite for the gritty business of winning trophies. He's developed an 'aesthetic', and an 'ethic', that please him too much. Improving is what drives him on; not winning. Rather than go all out, try and fail, he will keep doing what he knows he can do every time; take good young players, get them into the top four and out of the group stages of the champs league. He'd have to make too many 'compromises' to actually win, and that's probably beneath him.
Arshavin23
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 15 Jul 2009
- Messages
- 161
Re: Wenger : the fiasco ?
I can't believe people here are having a go at Wenger. The man is a genius, and has won plenty of things for us. 5 years without a trophy is a worthy sacrifice for what he has given us in exchange. A new stadium, a new way of football set in stone from academy to reserves to first team, and making Arsenal world renown.
And the transition you guys are talking about is taking so long because we didn't have money to spend. If you want to see transition, wait until Scholes/Giggs/VanDerSar retire and watch United try and replace them with no money. Getting youngsters and bringing them through was the best Wenger could have done given the financial restraints.
I can't believe people here are having a go at Wenger. The man is a genius, and has won plenty of things for us. 5 years without a trophy is a worthy sacrifice for what he has given us in exchange. A new stadium, a new way of football set in stone from academy to reserves to first team, and making Arsenal world renown.
And the transition you guys are talking about is taking so long because we didn't have money to spend. If you want to see transition, wait until Scholes/Giggs/VanDerSar retire and watch United try and replace them with no money. Getting youngsters and bringing them through was the best Wenger could have done given the financial restraints.
Re: Wenger : the fiasco ?
Whilst you persist in this fanciful and romantic notion that you or the rags -or spurs for that matter- have somehow "earnt' your success in the last century without timely investments then you will remain ignorant and deluded.<br /><br />-- Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:15 am --<br /><br />
It's not an Arsenal forum, go fig!
Not everyone likes him, get over it.
tweetstreet said:judge him on what he's done/does not what he says!
He's delivered trophies and he's delivered a self sufficient club! What more do you want?
If it was the premiership of financial fair play and best players then arsenal would be streets ahead. If i had the money i could invest £1,000,000 in my local welsh premier side and win the title for the next 5 years but id rather see them use local talent or develop players for £50k and do it,
Honestly would any city fan rather some rich bloke bought success for you or would you rather a talented manager who brought success? £300M v £30M and the same result>
It's now becoming who's got the richest owner not whose got the best squad, manager, scouts, etc:
City and Chelsea slowly ruining the game. As much as I hate to say it Spurs are becoming hte future. And if titles continue to be bought i Will consider the premier league to b a title without Chelski and Man Sheikh City,
Earn success don't buy it
Whilst you persist in this fanciful and romantic notion that you or the rags -or spurs for that matter- have somehow "earnt' your success in the last century without timely investments then you will remain ignorant and deluded.<br /><br />-- Tue Oct 26, 2010 1:15 am --<br /><br />
Arshavin23 said:I can't believe people here are having a go at Wenger. The man is a genius, and has won plenty of things for us. 5 years without a trophy is a worthy sacrifice for what he has given us in exchange. A new stadium, a new way of football set in stone from academy to reserves to first team, and making Arsenal world renown.
And the transition you guys are talking about is taking so long because we didn't have money to spend. If you want to see transition, wait until Scholes/Giggs/VanDerSar retire and watch United try and replace them with no money. Getting youngsters and bringing them through was the best Wenger could have done given the financial restraints.
It's not an Arsenal forum, go fig!
Not everyone likes him, get over it.