Assisted dying

[mosssideblue]

I guess technically the person is dead if resuscitation is required.

Not sure about that

 

[mosssideblue]

MND is a very good case study for this topic. I think MND suffers retain capacity but happy to be corrected if that’s not the case.

I was thinking about Rob Burrows and his family earlier today when reading this thread, wondering what his wife’s view would be on this

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

I get the romantic bravado of it all, it seems so simple and nobody wants to think of dying in pain or having to be fed like a baby but there a deeply practical, legal and moral issues at stake here.

You are asking a medical professional to administer a lethal dose whose oath is to neither hasten nor delay death. How can you possibly force them to do so just because it’s lawful to? You can’t so you won’t be pitching up at your local hospital and going through the process - you’ll be needing to travel to a specialist centre - assuming that you could staff it with enough people who are willing to do this.

Then there is a whole debate to be had around consent. You need to have all your faculties and be able to make an informed decision at time of administering it. Medical professionals cannot rely on a pre signed piece of paper to say you agree as you may have changed your mind and they can’t confirm or otherwise so they won’t do it. To overcome this you will be choosing to die whilst you still have a reasonable quality of life.

Once you make it possible for a medically fit person to be killed you open up all sorts of moral and legal issues.

It is certainly an important debate the country should have and be heard to have. I doubt many people have really thought it through and that’s before you get the religious nut jobs involved.

At Dignitas you have to administer the fatal dose yourself (by drinking) its contained in their list of prerequisites

• possess a minimum level of physical mobility (sufficient to self-administer the drug).

The only assistance they offer is provision of the barbiturate by prescription.

Brochure of DIGNITAS

 

[flook]

My dad passed away several years ago, he died in hospital and there is no doubt in my mind that the medical team helped him along his way at the end. I am eternally grateful if that was the case.

My wife believes the same of her father, and also believes that her asking for his morphine dose to be increased was instrumental in this, both helping relieve his suffering and hastening him on his way

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

My wife believes the same of her father, and also believes that her asking for his morphine dose to be increased was instrumental in this, both helping relieve his suffering and hastening him on his way

The decision to go fully palliative means that the person is at the end of their lifespan and their body can no longer cope with whatever it is fighting.

The withdrawal of active treatment definitely quickens death as that body becomes overwhelmed with trying to fight whatever it has attacking it.

So, whilst this quickens the actual death, it isn’t causing it.

 

[stonerblue]

I don't understand the requirement for a public vote on this. If someone is facing a horrific end to their life and has the cognitive ability to CHOOSE this option, why should some delinquent who thinks 'the government is trying to kill us off to harvest our organs' be allowed to have a say in that? Opinion polls show exactly what the voters think, and it would be an overwhelming majority in a referendum, so stop wasting time and change the law so people suffering can die with dignity.

It's one of those scenarios that people will look back on in 100 years and say, 'Why did it take them so long?'

spot on

 

[stonerblue]

I get the romantic bravado of it all, it seems so simple and nobody wants to think of dying in pain or having to be fed like a baby but there a deeply practical, legal and moral issues at stake here.

You are asking a medical professional to administer a lethal dose whose oath is to neither hasten nor delay death. How can you possibly force them to do so just because it’s lawful to? You can’t so you won’t be pitching up at your local hospital and going through the process - you’ll be needing to travel to a specialist centre - assuming that you could staff it with enough people who are willing to do this.

Then there is a whole debate to be had around consent. You need to have all your faculties and be able to make an informed decision at time of administering it. Medical professionals cannot rely on a pre signed piece of paper to say you agree as you may have changed your mind and they can’t confirm or otherwise so they won’t do it. To overcome this you will be choosing to die whilst you still have a reasonable quality of life.

Once you make it possible for a medically fit person to be killed you open up all sorts of moral and legal issues.

It is certainly an important debate the country should have and be heard to have. I doubt many people have really thought it through and that’s before you get the religious nut jobs involved.

You don't need doctors to administer a pill. And i'm not sure what 'moral' issues there are either.
A fully competent adult with all their mental faculties intact should have an option to end their own life as and when they choose.

And, what's this 'romantic bravado' stuff about? Fuck all romantic about wasting away from chronic bad health.

 

[stonerblue]

During normal disease trajectories if someone is in unacceptable pain and suffering at the end of their life it’s because they have been failed by whatever specialist services they engage with in the NHS

This is complete bollocks MB

 

[stonerblue]

This should be a referendum matter IMHO, having a government or relatives you don't know have control of your life is madness.

You shouldn't need relatives or anyone else to administer an effective end of life treatment.

 

[Mr Kobayashi]

MND is a very good case study for this topic. I think MND suffers retain capacity but happy to be corrected if that’s not the case.

Not as clear cut as that.

People with MND appear to fall into four groups: around 50% are unaffected by cognitive change. around 35% experience mild cognitive change, with specific deficits in executive functions, language and/or social cognition. up to 15% develop frontotemporal dementia (FTD), either at the same time or after diagnosis of MND.

Motor Neurone Disease (MND) | Fact Sheet | Health Information | Brain & Spine Foundation

Motor Neurone Disease (MND) | Fact Sheet - information, support and advice from the Brain & Spine Foundation.

www.brainandspine.org.uk