Assisted dying

[mosssideblue]

Very few, if any, medical professionals will be prepared to take your wishes in to account like that to end your life.

You need the capacity to say “I want to die now”. There can be no doubt in their minds that this is your current wish.

DNR forms - which are the nearest I can think of - only work because you’re already dead and you’re refusing treatment to change that.

Not sure DNR concerns people already dead.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Not sure DNR concerns people already dead.

I guess technically the person is dead if resuscitation is required.

 

[metalblue]

Having watched the death of my grandma of pneumonia, sitting with her whilst she was unconscious with the syringe driver of drugs sedating her, waiting until her lungs filled with mucus, I’d ask why she had to go through that when it had all been agreed that there was nothing left to try?

Surely, when that decision is made, it’s far more humane to “put her to sleep” than watch what was left of her body to fail and watch her drown?

Sorry for your loss mate and I hope you got the chance to talk with her and say everything before she died.

She was at the natural end of her life, hopefully comfortable enough even if unconscious. Assisting her death a week or two before natural causes would have likely only been kinder for you and her other loved ones who have to watch her slip away - even if she herself might say I’m done for end it now. I hope that doesn’t come across as insensitive as I’ve also been there - I’m only trying to make the point that death is natural and (should only be) horrible for those left to grieve the loss.

 

[Mazzarelli's Swiss Cheese]

Mother in law did euthanasia. Highly recommended

 

[abu13]

I heard a story earlier about Esther Ranson, i might not have it exactly right but it was along the lines that she has seen 3 significant deaths in her close family, her father, her husband and her dog. And of the three the only one that was allowed a dignified death was the dog.

Pretty much sums it up for me.

 

[abu13]

My dad passed away several years ago, he died in hospital and there is no doubt in my mind that the medical team helped him along his way at the end. I am eternally grateful if that was the case.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

Sorry for your loss mate and I hope you got the chance to talk with her and say everything before she died.

She was at the natural end of her life, hopefully comfortable enough even if unconscious. Assisting her death a week or two before natural causes would have likely only been kinder for you and her other loved ones who have to watch her slip away - even if she herself might say I’m done for end it now. I hope that doesn’t come across as insensitive as I’ve also been there - I’m only trying to make the point that death is natural and (should only be) horrible for those left to grieve the loss.

Cheers. I recognise the system isn’t going to suit all deaths. It’s impossible.

The infection cycle lasted about 4 months longer than it should, in my opinion. It took seeing the same doctor twice (totally coincidentally) in two visits in 3 days to get her onto palliative care.

After the first visit, the doctor wrote a letter to her GP with care home CCd to suggested palliative care. They both ignored it and she ended up back in hospital 2 days later, when he said he was happy not to treat and go down the palliative route. If it hadn’t been for him, we may still be in the cycle.

What the putting to sleep at that point stops is the 36 hours or so where the drugs are tinkered with to make the patient pain free.

You're right that death is natural. The vigil of someone being with your loved one is exhausting, but not a reason to request AD.

I just think that a person should be able to put in place how they control their death, within legal parameters.

Doctors have to make decisions all the time to stop treatment and declare death etc. That’s part of their job. It’s not that dissimilar to AD.

 

[metalblue]

I know that currently, having just gone through it and her going in and out of hospital with recurring infections where delirium didn’t clear before the next one hit. Everyone (Care Home, GP, Ambulance, hospital doctor) has their own system, procedures and red flags.

She was blue lighted into resus twice, complete with her DNR form.

This thread is discussing the potential of assisted dying and my grandma had always said and had written that she didn’t want being kept alive for the sake of it and had she been able to sign a form to say she’d want to be put to sleep when a certain limit was met, she would have done.

I’m not trying to argue for family members to be able to make that decision. It should solely be the person’s own viewpoint and if nothing was in place, then it’d continue as it is now.

I guess the crux of the matter is that there is a point where receiving treatment becomes detrimental as it’s prolonging life for the sake of it.

Why can a vet end an animal’s suffering, whilst a doctor can’t?

I didn’t think you were trying to argue that others should decide mate. The issue is you must be able to repeat your wish to die at the point you want to. You can’t pre-empt it and say should I have dementia then please terminate me when I can no longer remember you. We might all want to be able to do that but we can’t ask that of medical professionals.

Is it cruel? To your loved ones it almost certainly is, but to you with dementia? Who knows what you think then, you maybe completely unaware of your condition and what it means. Your grandma may have still wanted death to come or she may have found joy in knowing you were near by. We can all guess and you could argue her family know her best but - as you say - it’s not for them to decide.

You’re right there is a point treatment is detrimental but that should only be treatment that is maintaining life, withdraw that and let nature take its course.

 

[Alan Harper's Tash]

I didn’t think you were trying to argue that others should decide mate. The issue is you must be able to repeat your wish to die at the point you want to. You can’t pre-empt it and say should I have dementia then please terminate me when I can no longer remember you. We might all want to be able to do that but we can’t ask that of medical professionals.

Is it cruel? To your loved ones it almost certainly is, but to you with dementia? Who knows what you think then, you maybe completely unaware of your condition and what it means. Your grandma may have still wanted death to come or she may have found joy in knowing you were near by. We can all guess and you could argue her family know her best but - as you say - it’s not for them to decide.

You’re right there is a point treatment is detrimental but that should only be treatment that is maintaining life, withdraw that and let nature take its course.

I’ve deliberately not mentioned dementia as I don’t have enough experience dealing with it to comment with any confidence.

It‘s a horrific condition that is terrible for families to see.

As it’s a condition that doesn’t kill on its own, it’d be hard to argue for AD with it, especially as the lack of capacity would make for a legal minefield.

MND sufferers though should be allowed to have AD as it’s a deteriating condition that ultimately kills.

Obviously it’s only my opinion!

 

[metalblue]

I’ve deliberately not mentioned dementia as I don’t have enough experience dealing with it to comment with any confidence.

It‘s a horrific condition that is terrible for families to see.

As it’s a condition that doesn’t kill on its own, it’d be hard to argue for AD with it, especially as the lack of capacity would make for a legal minefield.

MND sufferers though should be allowed to have AD as it’s a deteriating condition that ultimately kills.

Obviously it’s only my opinion!

MND is a very good case study for this topic. I think MND suffers retain capacity but happy to be corrected if that’s not the case.