Attacks in Paris

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

France don't have multiculturism.
You come to France you accept French culture - end of - is there stance.
I support it but it has consequences.

Nonsense.

Blame the French? The self reflection shouldn't be of the French.

The only responsibility for this act lies with the people who did it and their religious and political beliefs that inspired them.

Their sympathisers will be peddling out that very kind of rationale you've just used. Don't give it credence, it's fucking nonsense.

 

[SWP's back]

Fucking scum.

And to think I was speculating that a stadium would be a prime target for these savages only last week.

Really don't realise how great a threat these scumbags and their sympathisers pose to our way of life.

In real terms, they pose almost no threat to your way of life.

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

In real terms, they pose almost no threat to your way of life.

Of course they do.

Besides the very real threat of terrorism our governments are becoming ever more draconian in an effort to combat them and said threat.

The world is changing.

When you think back now, there was a pre 9/11, and the world was never the same since.

This specific type of ideology is a very real threat to the free world. And it's causing us to slowly lose liberties we took for granted prior to 9/11.

 

[malg]

This is where our special forces earn their money - infiltrate, collect intelligence, then hit them hard . However, it appears that these people can't be infiltrated, so what next?

 

[SWP's back]

Of course they do.

Besides the very real threat of terrorism our governments are becoming ever more draconian in an effort to combat them and said threat.

The world is changing.

When you think back now, there was a pre 9/11, and the world was never the same since.

This specific type of ideology is a very real threat to the free world. And it's causing us to slowly lose liberties we took for granted prior to 9/11.

There isn't a very real threat to your life at all.

147 terrorist deaths since 2000 in the UK. 25,000 deaths on the road in that time. That's 170x more deaths though road accidents. Do you fear for your life when you get in your car or get on a bus? The fear factor is the one thing that terrorism tried to push. But it's virtually none existent. There were 3,600 earths from falls in the uk last year, 99 on them being people falling out of bed. That's against none to terrorism. 35 people drowned in their own bath tubs in that 12 month period to give the numbers some perspective.

Things like 9/11, 21/7 and Paris last night are huge news and awful tragedies but they are not the norm and as I said, in real terms, your odds of dying in a terrorist attack in any one year are slightly less than winning the lottery.

 

[EalingBlue2]

Boots on the ground may not work in terms of defeating the ideology but surely we can destroy their infrastructure. You don't just pop down to your local B&Q to buy automatic weapons and suicide vests. These guys were highly trained in using the guns and explosives, they clearly have training camps, they clearly have weapon caches. We may not be able to bomb and shoot the ideology but we sure as hell can hit them in other places.

We would have to disarm the whole of Africa, the Middle East and large chunks of Asia from India to Indonesia. It would be a fair effort and probably it would need an army many times the size we had in WW2 from all the allies. At the end we'd have to stay there as well to keep an eye. If only there was such a simple answer .

 

[MCFC1993]

This is where our special forces earn their money - infiltrate, collect intelligence, then hit them hard . However, it appears that these people can't be infiltrated, so what next?

Oh they can be infiltrated, they wouldn't have got 'Jihadi John' without some help.

Its a fight like no other though, this is an organisation without borders and no real territory and instead plan their attacks by blending in in other countries and then attacking innocent civilians.

I'd say take out there known HQ's and find a way of getting the most powerful countries working together, i.e. we don't need Russia and the US having a dick measuring competition when something this serious is going on.

 

[EalingBlue2]

There isn't a very real threat to your life at all.

147 terrorist deaths since 2000 in the UK. 25,000 deaths on the road in that time. That's 170x more deaths though road accidents. Do you fear for your life when you get in your car or get on a bus? The fear factor is the one thing that terrorism tried to push. But it's virtually none existent. There were 3,600 earths from falls in the uk last year, 99 on them being people falling out of bed. That's against none to terrorism. 35 people drowned in their own bath tubs in that 12 month period to give the numbers some perspective.

Things like 9/11, 21/7 and Paris last night are huge news and awful tragedies but they are not the norm and as I said, in real terms, your odds of dying in a terrorist attack in any one year are slightly less than winning the lottery.

It's right terrorism can never be more than a mosquito on a Blue Whale but if the mosquito can convince the Blue Whale that it is a serious threat to its life it can have a major major effect. Also reality is when you kill one person let alone 200 for everyone who knows that person you have attacked them. But all in all this is correct.

 

[The Northern Baptist]

All my ancestors were Irish..................I was born in Manchester.

Who am I?

Johnny Marr?

 

[RichardDunneOwnGoal]

Precisely. It was "boots on the ground" in Iraq and Afghanistan that contributed to this situation.

Way too often used as a cop out.

This kind of ideology was responsible for the deaths of 3000 Americans on 9/11. Long before there were any troops on the ground in Iraq or Afghanistan.

The sooner people turn the microscope on to Islam, and Wahabbism and Saudi Arabia in particular, the sooner the fundamental causes behind these acts of brutality will be closer to being addressed.

It's about time there was a wider debate on this, especially a Muslim led one.

Rather than the usual 'not all Muslims', 'the attackers aren't real Muslims', type dismissals that we'll get for a few weeks until it peters out and the next atrocity happens, when we can of course enjoy hearing the same old cop outs once more.

If the mainstream media and political centre left doesn't stop pretending there is no link to faith in this violence then all that will happen is that divisions within our societies will grow and so will the far right. And with that, the hate will flow on all sides, and become a self fulfilling prophecy with conflict inevitable.

As long as the mainstream are too cowardly to address the very real religious motivations behind these attacks, then there'll never be a solution.

It fucking shameful that the only people that have the courage to publicly address this particular aspect of the violence in this country are the far right.

And that's what's drawing people to them, because people aren't fucking stupid, they can see through the rhetoric. It's not all our fault, and it does have something to do with Islam.

It's a good thing to try not to alienate normal Muslims who don't support this, but the current state of play isn't sustainable, nothing is changing. Support for these kind of groups isn't going away, in fact, it seems to be increasing. And we as a society, need to reflect on why, and come up with solutions to address it - together.

Thank fuck we can all rely on the occasional thinker to speak out and brave the shitstorm to address this: