Attacks in Paris

Pezzer2 said:
After last night I felt I needed to know a bit more about the threat we face. I'm halfway through a book by a Irish Journalist called Patrick Cockburn "The Rise of the Islamic State" . He's been a correspondent in the Middle East since 1991. Its a compelling read and certainly opened my eyes on how serious this situation is. The authorities face a nightmare with the different groups operating under Sunni's and Shia's and how big the ISIS has become and how they have regrouped and become more organised and destructive since they were Al Queda. I'm only a third through the book but the Americans (common knowledge I suppose) seem to have made the situation worse and have also inadvertently sent arms to certain groups which have ended up being seized by ISIS.
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It's a bit outdated IS are getting a bit of a hammering at the moment and that might be the reason for this attack
 
Pezzer2 said:
After last night I felt I needed to know a bit more about the threat we face. I'm halfway through a book by a Irish Journalist called Patrick Cockburn "The Rise of the Islamic State" . He's been a correspondent in the Middle East since 1991. Its a compelling read and certainly opened my eyes on how serious this situation is. The authorities face a nightmare with the different groups operating under Sunni's and Shia's and how big the ISIS has become and how they have regrouped and become more organised and destructive since they were Al Queda. I'm only a third through the book but the Americans (common knowledge I suppose) seem to have made the situation worse and have also inadvertently sent arms to certain groups which have ended up being seized by ISIS.
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Read a book called "The Looming Tower: Al Qaeda's Road to 9/11" by Lawrence Wright. Gives a very comprehensive account of how Bin Laden became radicalised and the role of religion and Arab nationalist politics in that process.
 
RichardDunneOwnGoal said:
@Damocles

- Majid Nawaz
- Ayaan Hirsi AlI

Last time this topic came up, on the issue of the culpability for this violence you very much gave credence to the ideology of IS, their victim narrative. The narrative that the West more or less bears the ultimate culpability for the violence in the Arab world.

You played down the role of religion, and instead focused on Western Imperialism, of parts of the Muslim world withdrawing within themselves in response to the growing influence of Western culture on the world.

You didn't know who those two names were I've listed above.

Please read some of their work, their stories, and make an effort to genuine discussion.
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It seems clear the ISIS ideology is a literal and in this day and age a perverted view of Islam. They are a murderous, medieval cult. It is similar to some of the nutcase Christian fundamentalists or some of the extreme Jews who refer to Palestinians as rats. Kill the unbelievers was also the motto of the Crusaders. There is a clear link with religion and Islam.
Western society and values has evolved to the extent where we can marginalise the religious mutters in our midst through secularisation and an inclusive society.
Where the West must take huge blame is for the destabilising of the Middle East and therefore limiting the space and opportunity for normal Muslims to create societies with economic opportunity and fairness for its citizens which can turn young men away from the religious nut cases. Why oh why was there unconditional support for Israel to do what it wanted? The only way on my view to defeat ISIS is through the West supporting moderate Muslims to push the nutters to the margins. The way is not through violence- look where that has got us
 
time to create some more jobs.
Army personnel, police officers on the beat and border agents.
More people getting paid wages, wages which will then be taxed by the government and our country is a little more safe.
Who loses?

ps. interesting podcast by Joe Rogan on the ISIS situation (first 45mins) before the Paris attacks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtD8oMMJK_k
 
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wesshaw1985 said:
time to create some more jobs.
Army personnel, police officers on the beat and border agents.
More people getting paid wages, wages which will then be taxed by the government and our country is a little more safe.
Who loses?

ps. interesting podcast by Joe Rogan on the subject before the Paris attacks - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtD8oMMJK_k
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That's three hours long, can't you direct U.S., I ain't got three hours to spare right now. In summary please...
 
BigJoe#1 said:
That's three hours long, can't you direct U.S., I ain't got three hours to spare right now. In summary please...
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just an interview with an ex-Navy Seal discussing ISIS for the first 45mins...
 
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Stiff Little Wingers said:
It seems clear the ISIS ideology is a literal and in this day and age a perverted view of Islam. They are a murderous, medieval cult. It is similar to some of the nutcase Christian fundamentalists or some of the extreme Jews who refer to Palestinians as rats. Kill the unbelievers was also the motto of the Crusaders. There is a clear link with religion and Islam.
Western society and values has evolved to the extent where we can marginalise the religious mutters in our midst through secularisation and an inclusive society.
Where the West must take huge blame is for the destabilising of the Middle East and therefore limiting the space and opportunity for normal Muslims to create societies with economic opportunity and fairness for its citizens which can turn young men away from the religious nut cases. Why oh why was there unconditional support for Israel to do what it wanted? The only way on my view to defeat ISIS is through the West supporting moderate Muslims to push the nutters to the margins. The way is not through violence- look where that has got us
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It's Saudi Arabia destabilising the middle east, the same Saudi who fund the fascistic ISIS ideology to help spread it round the world, who pay for their weapons, and who run their country according to the same perverted mediaeval ideas.
 
oakiecokie said:
That`ll be those fuckers from The Office with Ricky Gervais being the instigator.
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As long as Ricky is careful about what he posts on Twitter about it Ricky should be ok. Did everybody see Jason Manford got his Twatter site taken down last night after his rant ( justified in my view ) about what happened in Paris and its perpetrators?
 
Cheesy said:
I'm not shit scared. In fact, I'm not remotely scared.
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Maybe I should be but I'm not - the Abbott government spent 3 years trying to terrify us we could be beheaded at any moment but there are still things I worry about that are day to day issues far more and that I can actually do something about
 
Stiff Little Wingers said:
Where the West must take huge blame is for the destabilising of the Middle East and therefore limiting the space and opportunity for normal Muslims to create societies with economic opportunity and fairness for its citizens which can turn young men away from the religious nut cases. Why oh why was there unconditional support for Israel to do what it wanted? The only way on my view to defeat ISIS is through the West supporting moderate Muslims to push the nutters to the margins. The way is not through violence- look where that has got us
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That's a bit of a confused mish-mash of ideas.

The real move towards militant Islamic fundamentalism started with the Russian invasion of Afghanistan. There was Palestinian terrorism before then (even though the situation in Israel wasn't anywhere near as bad as it is now) and that brought terror to Europe. But the real circus started in Afghanistan, with Carter keen to keep the Russians getting close to the Persian Gulf. So he supplied the Mujahideen, along with China, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and others who offered training and bases. As well as the Afghans, militant Arab fighters flocked to the area. Many of those were encouraged by Saudi Arabia. The Afghans were fighting a war though and many of the Arabs were just looking to become martyrs.

When the Russians withdrew, there was a vacuum which the Pakistani ISI wanted to ensure was filled. So they armed & encouraged the Taliban, who eventually took control. They cosied up to Bin Laden and the scene was set for 9/11. After that of course, it all turned to shit and the West certainly played its part in that, getting involved in Afghanistan and Iraq, then Libya.

But the problem we've seen with the Arab Spring is that it starts off being hopeful but quickly degenerates into inter-necine warfare, with tribes or sects fihting among themselves.
 
bluethrunthru said:
As long as Ricky is careful about what he posts on Twitter about it Ricky should be ok. Did everybody see Jason Manford got his Twatter site taken down last night after his rant ( justified in my view ) about what happened in Paris and its perpetrators?
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No I don`t bother with Twatter but what was basically said by JM to cause outrage ?
 
EalingBlue2 said:
Maybe I should be but I'm not - the Abbott government spent 3 years trying to terrify us we could be beheaded at any moment but there are still things I worry about that are day to day issues far more and that I can actually do something about
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Exactly. What's happened is beyond awful and for the people invovled the anguish must be indescribable, but the chances of getting caught up in anything like this are so remote that there is just no point in living your life scared. As is often pointed out, this is exactly what terrorism strives to achieve anway and I refuse to allow them any small victory.
 
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