Attendances

[wattle]

This may sound like a stupid question to most but what stops the club from buying all the unsold tickets themselves, then claiming it was a sell out?

The type of thing we are accused of doing on RAWK you mean?

Mmmmmm...........

No I 100% believe we do this. Nothing against us doing it personally if it's another way to get over the yet to be found illegal fair play bullshit. There's no way there is 2000 season ticket holders not attending every game. We're pricing genuine fans out of the market. FACT!! - As the Spanish waiter would say

 

[Manchester33]

Aren't City's ticket prices already the lowest in the league?

No, not even close.

Our season tickets aren't bad though, considering we are champions!

 

[Manchester33]

Still miles off being 'cheap' - but so is every club though

 

[casualdeyna]

They have the planning permission to do it, but there are no immediate plans to expand the North Stand at present. I think they are planning on seeing how things go with the South Stand redevelopment in terms of demand for tickets etc before making a decision.

Not so sure on that can't see them losing the expertise gained and moving the plant etc .my guess is the decision is made already one way or the other.

I am very confident that the North Stand will be developed soon after the South Stand is completed. I understand that it was always the plan.

As others have pointed out, it might not always be a sell out but there will be enough league and cup games to fill to 60-odd k to make it worthwhile in the long term.

The only point that is unclear to me is, if MCC own the stadium, who owns the expanded parts?

It used to be that we rented the stadium off MCC by giving away any revenue from tickets sold above the 32/33k capacity of Maine Road, so expanding the stadium made no sense as MCC would just get the extra revenue from the ticket sales (presumably not expanded hospitality though.)

Now though we pay a flat rate per annum, regardless of how many games we have and how many tickets we sell, which then makes perfect sense to expand as we pay the same rate regardless but get more income.

"Owning" the stadium doesn't really matter, our agreement with MCC means it is "our" stadium lock, stock and barrell, we just pay the council a flat rate per annum for it, think of it as ground rent like with a house. It is only rags who seem concerned official ownership sits with MCC, everyone knows this is our stadium, in our City

 

[tommybooth]

Candlepool to build 150,000 seater with a massive trophy room for all their Prem trophys.

Now that is my arse.

 

[blueparrot]

This may sound like a stupid question to most but what stops the club from buying all the unsold tickets themselves, then claiming it was a sell out?

The type of thing we are accused of doing on RAWK you mean?

Mmmmmm...........

No I 100% believe we do this. Nothing against us doing it personally if it's another way to get over the yet to be found illegal fair play bullshit. There's no way there is 2000 season ticket holders not attending every game. We're pricing genuine fans out of the market. FACT!! - As the Spanish waiter would say

You are 100% wrong then, the club sells out of matchday tickets for most games and 1000 to 2000 s/c holders (2-5 %) could quite easily not attend some games, especially midweek games.

 

[the originalkippaxman]

The type of thing we are accused of doing on RAWK you mean?

Mmmmmm...........

No I 100% believe we do this. Nothing against us doing it personally if it's another way to get over the yet to be found illegal fair play bullshit. There's no way there is 2000 season ticket holders not attending every game. We're pricing genuine fans out of the market. FACT!! - As the Spanish waiter would say

You are 100% wrong then, the club sells out of matchday tickets for most games and 1000 to 2000 s/c holders (2-5 %) could quite easily not attend some games, especially midweek games.

Unfortunately it does happen. No surprise that the Cat C games always seem to sell out just before the game. Every club does it they have to, too tick the boxes for FFP income.

 

[blueparrot]

No I 100% believe we do this. Nothing against us doing it personally if it's another way to get over the yet to be found illegal fair play bullshit. There's no way there is 2000 season ticket holders not attending every game. We're pricing genuine fans out of the market. FACT!! - As the Spanish waiter would say

You are 100% wrong then, the club sells out of matchday tickets for most games and 1000 to 2000 s/c holders (2-5 %) could quite easily not attend some games, especially midweek games.

Unfortunately it does happen. No surprise that the Cat C games always seem to sell out just before the game. Every club does it they have to, too tick the boxes for FFP income.

They do sell out just before the game but if you look at the planner a week before there will only be a handful left, If you look for the Hull game now I would say a couple of hundred left mainly at the top level 3. Plus maybe 300 South level 2 returned tickets. They definately couldn't use it as FFP income unless they can show income for them.

 

[coleridge]

Not so sure on that can't see them losing the expertise gained and moving the plant etc .my guess is the decision is made already one way or the other.

I am very confident that the North Stand will be developed soon after the South Stand is completed. I understand that it was always the plan.

As others have pointed out, it might not always be a sell out but there will be enough league and cup games to fill to 60-odd k to make it worthwhile in the long term.

The only point that is unclear to me is, if MCC own the stadium, who owns the expanded parts?

It used to be that we rented the stadium off MCC by giving away any revenue from tickets sold above the 32/33k capacity of Maine Road, so expanding the stadium made no sense as MCC would just get the extra revenue from the ticket sales (presumably not expanded hospitality though.)

Now though we pay a flat rate per annum, regardless of how many games we have and how many tickets we sell, which then makes perfect sense to expand as we pay the same rate regardless but get more income.

"Owning" the stadium doesn't really matter, our agreement with MCC means it is "our" stadium lock, stock and barrell, we just pay the council a flat rate per annum for it, think of it as ground rent like with a house. It is only rags who seem concerned official ownership sits with MCC, everyone knows this is our stadium, in our City

Yes, I understand the long lease concept. So the answer to my question seems to be that MCC owns all parts of the stadium in equity if not in possession. Does the stadium form part of MCC's fixed assets, I wonder? It surely can't be included in MCFC accounts.

 

[Wafty Cranker]

I am very confident that the North Stand will be developed soon after the South Stand is completed. I understand that it was always the plan.

As others have pointed out, it might not always be a sell out but there will be enough league and cup games to fill to 60-odd k to make it worthwhile in the long term.

The only point that is unclear to me is, if MCC own the stadium, who owns the expanded parts?

It used to be that we rented the stadium off MCC by giving away any revenue from tickets sold above the 32/33k capacity of Maine Road, so expanding the stadium made no sense as MCC would just get the extra revenue from the ticket sales (presumably not expanded hospitality though.)

Now though we pay a flat rate per annum, regardless of how many games we have and how many tickets we sell, which then makes perfect sense to expand as we pay the same rate regardless but get more income.

"Owning" the stadium doesn't really matter, our agreement with MCC means it is "our" stadium lock, stock and barrell, we just pay the council a flat rate per annum for it, think of it as ground rent like with a house. It is only rags who seem concerned official ownership sits with MCC, everyone knows this is our stadium, in our City

Yes, I understand the long lease concept. So the answer to my question seems to be that MCC owns all parts of the stadium in equity if not in possession. Does the stadium form part of MCC's fixed assets, I wonder? It surely can't be included in MCFC accounts.

It can & it is. I remember looking at the figures in the annual report a few years ago and it's in there.

 

[pardoeofftomexico]

It used to be that we rented the stadium off MCC by giving away any revenue from tickets sold above the 32/33k capacity of Maine Road, so expanding the stadium made no sense as MCC would just get the extra revenue from the ticket sales (presumably not expanded hospitality though.)

Now though we pay a flat rate per annum, regardless of how many games we have and how many tickets we sell, which then makes perfect sense to expand as we pay the same rate regardless but get more income.

"Owning" the stadium doesn't really matter, our agreement with MCC means it is "our" stadium lock, stock and barrell, we just pay the council a flat rate per annum for it, think of it as ground rent like with a house. It is only rags who seem concerned official ownership sits with MCC, everyone knows this is our stadium, in our City

Yes, I understand the long lease concept. So the answer to my question seems to be that MCC owns all parts of the stadium in equity if not in possession. Does the stadium form part of MCC's fixed assets, I wonder? It surely can't be included in MCFC accounts.

It can & it is. I remember looking at the figures in the annual report a few years ago and it's in there.

Yes, the stadium is in the Balance Sheet. When you have a long term leasehold which in this case was 250 years from 2003 the valuation is brought into fixed assets as if it were owned and the discounted cost of what has to be paid to the landlord is brought in as a liability. By the time we win the Champions League everyone on Bluemoon will be a finance expert!

 

[Questy]

The stadium expansion is as much about pushing more corporate as it is increasing season ticket holders, Level 2 East and CB are earmarked for Corporate and next seasons seasoncard prices will be upped so much in order to try shove the current seat holders out.. I was told that it was going to be around £1100/1200 for these seats next season.

 

[blueparrot]

The stadium expansion is as much about pushing more corporate as it is increasing season ticket holders, Level 2 East and CB are earmarked for Corporate and next seasons seasoncard prices will be upped so much in order to try shove the current seat holders out.. I was told that it was going to be around £1100/1200 for these seats next season.

We were all told by the club. in the waiting list FAQs

 

[coleridge]

Yes, the stadium is in the Balance Sheet. When you have a long term leasehold which in this case was 250 years from 2003 the valuation is brought into fixed assets as if it were owned and the discounted cost of what has to be paid to the landlord is brought in as a liability. By the time we win the Champions League everyone on Bluemoon will be a finance expert!

Seems about right upon reflection but I'm a lawyer and not an accountant.

Dare I ask about capital appreciation?

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

Yes, the stadium is in the Balance Sheet. When you have a long term leasehold which in this case was 250 years from 2003 the valuation is brought into fixed assets as if it were owned and the discounted cost of what has to be paid to the landlord is brought in as a liability. By the time we win the Champions League everyone on Bluemoon will be a finance expert!

Seems about right upon reflection but I'm a lawyer and not an accountant.

Dare I ask about capital appreciation?

We as good as own the stadium, under a long-term operating lease. It's in the balance sheet and any revaluation, up or down, is also reflected in the balance sheet. Without looking, I believe there is a revaluation reserve in the accounts.

Edit: there is and the balance on it is just under £45m. I think we have it valued every 3 years.

 

[mancityvstoke]

THE NORTH STAND (originally referred to as the Scoreboard End):
Original terracing until demolition commenced in 1970. New terraced stand opened in 1971 and became seated in 1972.
Final capacity: 8,527
Seated capacity in 1972: 8,120
Original standing capacity: c.18,000
Standing capacity 1971/2 season: 22,000

MAINE ROAD PROGRESSIVE CAPACITY
· 1923 – 84,000
· 1931 – 86,000
· 1935 – 88,000
· 1946 – 84,000
· 1953 – 76,500
· 1957 – 77,000
· 1963 – 64,000
· 1972 – 54,500
· 1973 – 52,600
· 1989 – 48,500
· 1992 – 39,359
· 1994 – 19,150*
· 1995 – 31,458
· 1997 – 32,147
· 1999 – 34,026
· 2000 – 34,421
· 2002 – 35,150

 

[worsleyweb]

THE NORTH STAND (originally referred to as the Scoreboard End):
Original terracing until demolition commenced in 1970. New terraced stand opened in 1971 and became seated in 1972.
Final capacity: 8,527
Seated capacity in 1972: 8,120
Original standing capacity: c.18,000
Standing capacity 1971/2 season: 22,000

MAINE ROAD PROGRESSIVE CAPACITY
· 1923 – 84,000
· 1931 – 86,000
· 1935 – 88,000
· 1946 – 84,000
· 1953 – 76,500
· 1957 – 77,000
· 1963 – 64,000
· 1972 – 54,500
· 1973 – 52,600
· 1989 – 48,500
· 1992 – 39,359
· 1994 – 19,150*
· 1995 – 31,458
· 1997 – 32,147
· 1999 – 34,026
· 2000 – 34,421
· 2002 – 35,150

Laing's built the north stand at maine road and the maine stand roof!

 

[City1974]

The stadium expansion is as much about pushing more corporate as it is increasing season ticket holders, Level 2 East and CB are earmarked for Corporate and next seasons seasoncard prices will be upped so much in order to try shove the current seat holders out.. I was told that it was going to be around £1100/1200 for these seats next season.

If Level 2 gets aimed for more corporate it could end up like Wembley where in Level 2 (behind the dugouts in particular) people take up 15 mins just to get back to their seat after half time and it looks terrible. Surely you come to watch the game not for wining and dining..

As the East stand at City is what the cameras are mostly looking directly at, I hope Level 2 prices do not force people out there at all. A few more corporate in the CB stand OK maybe, but leave the East Stand as now, or as is happening near the base of the North Stand in particular there will be bigger gaps of empty seats in the East Stand Level 2 also. If anyone is priced out of CB stand they should be offered good seats in East Stand where available or decent seats elsewhere, where they want to sit.

More corporate is already being added to the South stand development, so if a little more is added to the CB stand only then any more could be left until the North Stand is expanded surely, or maybe even at the stage when the East and\or CB stand gets expanded.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

THE NORTH STAND (originally referred to as the Scoreboard End):
Original terracing until demolition commenced in 1970. New terraced stand opened in 1971 and became seated in 1972.
Final capacity: 8,527
Seated capacity in 1972: 8,120
Original standing capacity: c.18,000
Standing capacity 1971/2 season: 22,000

MAINE ROAD PROGRESSIVE CAPACITY
· 1923 – 84,000
· 1931 – 86,000
· 1935 – 88,000
· 1946 – 84,000
· 1953 – 76,500
· 1957 – 77,000
· 1963 – 64,000
· 1972 – 54,500
· 1973 – 52,600
· 1989 – 48,500
· 1992 – 39,359
· 1994 – 19,150*
· 1995 – 31,458
· 1997 – 32,147
· 1999 – 34,026
· 2000 – 34,421
· 2002 – 35,150

The first picture is a great one of the crossover between the old and new North Stand. Never seen that before.

Those attendance changes are interesting. I think I can pinpoint most of the big shifts:

1963 presumably when the Platt Lane was built and became all seated.
1972 the North Stand as referred to above.
1992-1995 the development of the Kippax/Umbro

Many of the others imposed by statute.

Honourable mention for Gene Kelly.

Can't figure out why it dropped so much in 1953 though.

 

[cibaman]

Not a cat in hells chance, thanks ffp

It certainly will involve a reduction in prices.

The current pricing strategy seems to involve setting prices to sell out the lesser matches on the actual day of the match or a day before. Previously a lot of matches have been sold out weeks ahead. This is now only happening for the likes of United, Chelsea, and Arsenal. The club are clearly using a revenue maximisation price strategy by setting the maximum price that will ensure all tickets are sold.

The numbers on the waiting list suggest that season tickets will be sold out with the higher capacity. That will remove aa fair chunk of the walk-up supporters so it will be harder to shift the remaining tickets. Also the visiting support allocation will increase. Very few teams take their full quota now so that could mean more reallocated to home support.

Hence the price for walk-up tickets will be reduced especially for low profile matches.

The empty seat stuff is of no consequence. People cannot always attend every match. They go on holiday, attend family weddings and the like. They can be taken ill, suffer from cancelled trains. They can even be stuck in traffic and only arrive after the EEN have taken their photographs.

There are often empty seats in the upper tier of the South Stand. How many of those belong to people who are standing with their mates on the lower tier?

Ye as you've said walk up tickets may, not season tickets, as pointed out there is a waiting list so basic supply and demand would dictate if they can get the maximum value they will. Lets not forget they are now in it to make as much money as possible. As i pointed out earlier the best i think we can hope for is a freeze.

Has anyone worked out what the difference would have been if you had bought a walk up ticket for every game last season, compared to buying a season ticket?

It used to be that buying a season ticket gave you a discount equivalent to a couple of games. But I've no idea if there is much of a saving these days. I imagine most people buy the season tickets to guarantee entry to the big games.

Ultimately there must be some sort of correlation between match day prices and season ticket prices. Otherwise people will decide that the increased capacity will make it easier to get a walk up ticket and make them less likely to buy a season ticket