Ban the Grand National?

[SWP's back]

Polo
Buzkashi
Indy Car racing
Kabaddi
Archery

Archery? And what would you do if the French then invaded?

 

[johnmc]

Polo
Buzkashi
Indy Car racing
Kabaddi
Archery

Archery? And what would you do if the French then invaded?

Get on my horse, vault the nearest wall and get out of there.

 

[Dubai Blue]

Unfortunately for you that rarely happens so stop banging on about a hand full of incidents like they happen all the time.

Rarely happens? Sky News have just said that 40 horses have been killed on the Aintree course this year alone. If that figure is true then it is a disgrace.

It's clear that the number of runners and the size of the falls once they go over the fences are both far too big. If they're not willing to sort both of those things out themselves then the government needs to step in and do it for them.

Yes, that's what we need. More legislation.

It is if the sport's governing bodies are not able to sort it out themselves. Which is exactly what I just wrote. As you like to say, it's really not that difficult a concept to get to grips with.

 

[SWP's back]

But I very seriously and very honestly wouldn't give a shit. Much like I couldn't give a shit when an F1 driver, base jumper or lion tamer dies. They know the risks, so, yes, what goes around comes around. They're doing something very dangerous and shit like that happens. People who do things such as that generally don't want anyone's sympathy if it all goes tits up. And they wouldn't get any from me. They die doing something they enjoy and something that they knew could kill them.

Wow, how very human of you.

And no doubt why no one should give a shit when soldiers die, they also know the risks.

-- Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:40 am --

Rarely happens? Sky News have just said that 40 horses have been killed on the Aintree course this year alone. If that figure is true then it is a disgrace.

It's clear that the number of runners and the size of the falls once they go over the fences are both far too big. If they're not willing to sort both of those things out themselves then the government needs to step in and do it for them.

Yes, that's what we need. More legislation.

It is if the sport's governing bodies are not able to sort it out themselves. Which is exactly what I just wrote. As you like to say, it's really not that difficult a concept to get to grips with.

I am aware of the concept, I just disagree with your opinion of wanting even more laws forced upon us. I would have thought you'd have understood the sarcastic tone.

Never going to happen though, which is pleasing.

 

[Dubai Blue]

But I very seriously and very honestly wouldn't give a shit. Much like I couldn't give a shit when an F1 driver, base jumper or lion tamer dies. They know the risks, so, yes, what goes around comes around. They're doing something very dangerous and shit like that happens. People who do things such as that generally don't want anyone's sympathy if it all goes tits up. And they wouldn't get any from me. They die doing something they enjoy and something that they knew could kill them.

Wow, how very human of you.

And no doubt why no one should give a shit when soldiers die, they also know the risks.

So a soldier doing a very important job that has a potential impact on all of us is directly comparable to a man getting on a horse and jumping over fences for a bit of a laugh?

I didn't make that comparison folks, SWP's back did. And yes, it is a devastatingly insensitive and utterly fucked-up comparison to make.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

Are you seriously saying that you wouldn't give a shit about the death of a jockey,because in your warped values system of karma they somehow deserved to die for the 'crime' of riding a horse?
'What goes around comes around' does it?
So next time I see some little kiddie at gymkhana take a tumble off a horse when negotiating a fence,just like a jockey does,they clearly deserve to die do they?
Perhaps you would like to inform their parents that 'what goes around comes around' as they are lying in a hospital bed?
Maybe showjumpers deserve to die as well,in your sick world,or polo players,or three day eventers,because they all commit the dreadful offence of riding horses which sometimes lose their lives.
Jockeys do die,both on the flat,and in National Hunt races,not that you would know or care.
I have always respected you as a poster up until now,but if you are seriously saying that anyone who rides a horse deserves to die,and that the life of a horse is as important as that of a human being,then you are simply an idiot.

You describe me as 'warped' and then go on to say 'if you are seriously saying that anyone who rides a horse deserves to die'. Where, anywhere in any of my posts, have I ever said anything even barely resembling what you've just accused me of?

Yes, I'm seriously saying I wouldn't give a shit if a jockey died. No doubt there'd be a thread on here with hundreds of sheep saying RIP over and over again about someone they've never met, whilst simultaneously blubbering away over what a tragedy it is that someone participating in a very dangerous pursuit has, shock horror, lost their life.

But I very seriously and very honestly wouldn't give a shit. Much like I couldn't give a shit when an F1 driver, base jumper or lion tamer dies. They know the risks, so, yes, what goes around comes around. They're doing something very dangerous and shit like that happens. People who do things such as that generally don't want anyone's sympathy if it all goes tits up. And they wouldn't get any from me. They die doing something they enjoy and something that they knew could kill them.

But that is a long, long, very fucking long way from saying that everyone who rides horses deserves to die.

You need to calm down and give the hyberbole a rest. Honestly, banging on about my 'sick world' and 'warped value system' whilst calling me an 'idiot' really doesn't do your argument any favours at all.

You didn't address my points at all,did you?
So I shall ask you again.
Most jockeys learn to ride horses,and especially how to ride horses over fences,at gymkhana's.
The horses these children ride sometimes suffer fatalities as,sadly,do a number of the kids riding them.
There is absolutely no difference here between what young kids do,and what jockeys do,other than the height of the fences.
So would it bother you if children died learning to ride a horse over fences?
You have already made it abundantly clear that you don't care about the life of any human being who chooses an occupation with a risk element.
So what about scaffolders?
Or window cleaners?
Or steeplejacks?
Have they also made their career choices and deserve no sympathy when an accident occurs either?
Most occupations contain a 'risk' element.
Even an office worker could get an electric shock off a dodgy photocopier.
You cannot make life completely,100% risk free.
If you don't give a shit about the life of another human being because you don't agree with their choice of career,then you really do need to have a word with yourself.

 

[SWP's back]

But I very seriously and very honestly wouldn't give a shit. Much like I couldn't give a shit when an F1 driver, base jumper or lion tamer dies. They know the risks, so, yes, what goes around comes around. They're doing something very dangerous and shit like that happens. People who do things such as that generally don't want anyone's sympathy if it all goes tits up. And they wouldn't get any from me. They die doing something they enjoy and something that they knew could kill them.

Wow, how very human of you.

And no doubt why no one should give a shit when soldiers die, they also know the risks.

So a soldier doing a very important job that has a potential impact on all of us is directly comparable to a man getting on a horse and jumping over fences for a bit of a laugh?

I didn't make that comparison folks, SWP's back did. And yes, it is a devastatingly insensitive and utterly fucked-up comparison to make.

Can we have a list then of career/past times that are acceptable as being dangerous then?

Pilot?
What about a hobby pilot?
Handglider?
Paramedic?
Bouncer?
Footballer?
Rugby player?
What about a securicor worker. They know the risks.

Would you not give a shit about any of the above?

Is it just soldiers that you would give a shit about?

And don't you dare try and turn this around. You are the one on record as not giving a shit about humans. I'd say that is far more fucked up.

 

[nijinsky's fetlocks]

But I very seriously and very honestly wouldn't give a shit. Much like I couldn't give a shit when an F1 driver, base jumper or lion tamer dies. They know the risks, so, yes, what goes around comes around. They're doing something very dangerous and shit like that happens. People who do things such as that generally don't want anyone's sympathy if it all goes tits up. And they wouldn't get any from me. They die doing something they enjoy and something that they knew could kill them.

Wow, how very human of you.

And no doubt why no one should give a shit when soldiers die, they also know the risks.

So a soldier doing a very important job that has a potential impact on all of us is directly comparable to a man getting on a horse and jumping over fences for a bit of a laugh?

I didn't make that comparison folks, SWP's back did. And yes, it is a devastatingly insensitive and utterly fucked-up comparison to make.

Not in the same league of 'utterly fucked up' as not giving a shit about the life of another human being because they commit the unforgiveable 'crime' of riding a horse for a living,not a 'bit of a laugh'.

 

[Dubai Blue]

Are you seriously saying that you wouldn't give a shit about the death of a jockey,because in your warped values system of karma they somehow deserved to die for the 'crime' of riding a horse?
'What goes around comes around' does it?
So next time I see some little kiddie at gymkhana take a tumble off a horse when negotiating a fence,just like a jockey does,they clearly deserve to die do they?
Perhaps you would like to inform their parents that 'what goes around comes around' as they are lying in a hospital bed?
Maybe showjumpers deserve to die as well,in your sick world,or polo players,or three day eventers,because they all commit the dreadful offence of riding horses which sometimes lose their lives.
Jockeys do die,both on the flat,and in National Hunt races,not that you would know or care.
I have always respected you as a poster up until now,but if you are seriously saying that anyone who rides a horse deserves to die,and that the life of a horse is as important as that of a human being,then you are simply an idiot.

You describe me as 'warped' and then go on to say 'if you are seriously saying that anyone who rides a horse deserves to die'. Where, anywhere in any of my posts, have I ever said anything even barely resembling what you've just accused me of?

Yes, I'm seriously saying I wouldn't give a shit if a jockey died. No doubt there'd be a thread on here with hundreds of sheep saying RIP over and over again about someone they've never met, whilst simultaneously blubbering away over what a tragedy it is that someone participating in a very dangerous pursuit has, shock horror, lost their life.

But I very seriously and very honestly wouldn't give a shit. Much like I couldn't give a shit when an F1 driver, base jumper or lion tamer dies. They know the risks, so, yes, what goes around comes around. They're doing something very dangerous and shit like that happens. People who do things such as that generally don't want anyone's sympathy if it all goes tits up. And they wouldn't get any from me. They die doing something they enjoy and something that they knew could kill them.

But that is a long, long, very fucking long way from saying that everyone who rides horses deserves to die.

You need to calm down and give the hyberbole a rest. Honestly, banging on about my 'sick world' and 'warped value system' whilst calling me an 'idiot' really doesn't do your argument any favours at all.

You didn't address my points at all,did you?
So I shall ask you again.
Most jockeys learn to ride horses,and especially how to ride horses over fences,at gymkhana's.
The horses these children ride sometimes suffer fatalities as,sadly,do a number of the kids riding them.
There is absolutely no difference here between what young kids do,and what jockeys do,other than the height of the fences.
So would it bother you if children died learning to ride a horse over fences?
You have already made it abundantly clear that you don't care about the life of any human being who chooses an occupation with a risk element.
So what about scaffolders?
Or window cleaners?
Or steeplejacks?
Have they also made their career choices and deserve no sympathy when an accident occurs either?
Most occupations contain a 'risk' element.
Even an office worker could get an electric shock off a dodgy photocopier.
You cannot make life completely,100% risk free.
If you don't give a shit about the life of another human being because you don't agree with their choice of career,then you really do need to have a word with yourself.

I addressed all of these points in my post. People who do essential jobs that benefit wider society deserve our respect when they get injured or die doing those jobs. But racing cars at 200mph, jumping off tall buildings and riding horses over potentially lethal jumps are not essential jobs are they? They're dangerous hobbies that people have chosen to take up because they get a thrill out of that danger, knowing full well that that danger may one day kill them.

As much as you would like it to be true, I never said at any point that all people who ride horses deserve to die.

Your very obvious anger over this debate is clearly clouding your ability to read properly. And the feeling's mutual; I used to have respect for you as a poster too until you completely overreacted to something that you imagined I'd said.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I was derided by some on here by suggesting that the demise of the News of the World was an example of capitalism, in the face of public opinion, operating for the greater good. To me, there is no doubt that Murdoch, seeing a collapse of advertising revenue at his paper, was scared of that spreading to his other publications and closed it down immediately.

We will see the same thing happen at the Grand National if there is a sufficient groundswell of public opinion for change - which I believe there is. Sponsors will be reluctant to be associated with such an event and the race organisers will be forced to make changes to accommodate this.

Fewer riders should be the first port of call, along with a review of some of the fences. I imagine that boxing may not be quite as exhilarating a spectacle as bare knuckle fighting was but that doesn't mean that sports shouldn't evolve to reflect our aspirations to become increasingly civilised as a society.

There will be a balance to strike to make sure the spectacle doesn't become completely sterile, but the number of deaths to horses in this race is unusually high and steps should be taken to address that.

As usual a compromise will be found. People will moan for a while, but life moves on.