Basic People Management Skills

[JoeMercer'sWay]

This whole thread can be summed up by this quote from Martin Petrov:

"Nobody looked me in the eyes and said: 'Martin, thank you for your time, you are a very professional player.'

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...ers-winger-martin-petrov-there-is-no-trust-at

Mancini is not my fav manager but I do think he will bring the club success. Like others, I find his type of man management to be somewhat lacking but that being said, the issue with negative players I think is more a club mismanagement issue if you believe the rest of the quotes from that article. I was bothered by the whole player exodus initially but I've moved on and just reluctantly accept it as part of the growth process. In the end, we could have avoided this whole negative press shit by doing the human thing but I guess that sentiment is not good enough for where we're going or have gone or whatever it is we are supposed to be doing nowadays.

But you're basing this on only hearing one side of the story. Because the club have never responded to that. And nor should they.

Anyway. I think this thread's been done to death now so, I'm not going to bother adding my two penneth. I enjoyed reading the thread though. Very entertaining. The pro Mancini side won the debate, imho. Which, as it happens, is the side I come down on, surprisingly. And JoeMercer'sWay's rant on page 28 was the post of the thread. I thought that was worth a mention, as nobody else did.

thank you :)

 

[Soulboy]

Now that's funny

spurs wanted him bob shit it and blocked the move.

Spurs wanted him on a freebie... and us paying part of his wages.

Do you think that would have been a good deal for us?

It might have been great for Bellamy and Spurs, but do you seriously think it was a good deal for us?

 

[Anonymous]

One think thats clear is you cant have 23 man squad of international stars. that will always be a problem as you are dealing with players who was always the centre of the attention until they come to city and egos will clash. One thing Mourinho did very well was he seeked for players with certain personalities and already had 2 very strong leaders in terry and lampard. With the likes of Drogba and Cech being with them, they are strong enough to sort out anyone who cause trouble within the team.

The problem is that City doesnt have a strong core of players who are the leaders of the club and everyone is equal basically. They will sort this out and this is a learning process, im sure comming windows the people that recruit players will put more value to players character.

Terry was 24hrs away from signing for us.
Thank fuck he didn't.He's also an overated twat.
Drogba whinged like a girl and bleated about leaving Chelsea when Mourinho left,as did many of the others.
He didn't give a shite about Chelsea then,just himself.
As good as he is,I suspect he'd be petrol on the fire at a club in any kind of "crisis."

And give me Kompany as leader over sick-note has-been Terry any day.

IMO Ancelotti is the main reason why Chelsea are playing like a cohesive unit...which proves the point about the manager being allowed to manage entirely.
Drogba knows that if he throws his toys out,he'll most likely be on his bike-and on the way down.
Ancelotti has inspired a team ethic rather than a team of individuals.

It's the only way.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

One think thats clear is you cant have 23 man squad of international stars. that will always be a problem as you are dealing with players who was always the centre of the attention until they come to city and egos will clash. One thing Mourinho did very well was he seeked for players with certain personalities and already had 2 very strong leaders in terry and lampard. With the likes of Drogba and Cech being with them, they are strong enough to sort out anyone who cause trouble within the team.

The problem is that City doesnt have a strong core of players who are the leaders of the club and everyone is equal basically. They will sort this out and this is a learning process, im sure comming windows the people that recruit players will put more value to players character.

Terry was 24hrs away from signing for us.
Thank fuck he didn't.He's also an overated twat.
Drogba whinged like a girl and bleated about leaving Chelsea when Mourinho left,as did many of the others.
He didn't give a shite about Chelsea then,just himself.
As good as he is,I suspect he'd be petrol on the fire at a club in any kind of "crisis."

And give me Kompany as leader over sick-note has-been Terry any day.

IMO Ancelotti is the main reason why Chelsea are playing like a cohesive unit...which proves the point about the manager being allowed to manage entirely.
Drogba knows that if he throws his toys out,he'll most likely be on his bike-and on the way down.
Ancelotti has inspired a team ethic rather than a team of individuals.

It's the only way.

chelsea have a lot of aging players on their last payday with their final opportunity to win something, we have a bunch of young stars who have ambition and then see the bright lights knowing they can end up somewhere else really good, least they think they can...

 

[Bill]

i suppose it depends who we play, on the whole i'd go.

joe
boatang kolo vinny ak47
baz/nige yaya milner
tevez
dzeko mario.

have silva and johnson ready to come on to open up teams if required. untill then the fullbacks would create the width.

I notice you have gone for three defensive midfielders, something you have slated Mancini for.

as i said it depends who we play,i've put nige OR baz then yaya and james, we can have 3 dm's but only if the we have quality full backs that can overlap and deliver a ball in, without them we will create nothing.

 

[macmanson]

This whole thread can be summed up by this quote from Martin Petrov:

"Nobody looked me in the eyes and said: 'Martin, thank you for your time, you are a very professional player.'

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896...ers-winger-martin-petrov-there-is-no-trust-at

Mancini is not my fav manager but I do think he will bring the club success. Like others, I find his type of man management to be somewhat lacking but that being said, the issue with negative players I think is more a club mismanagement issue if you believe the rest of the quotes from that article. I was bothered by the whole player exodus initially but I've moved on and just reluctantly accept it as part of the growth process. In the end, we could have avoided this whole negative press shit by doing the human thing but I guess that sentiment is not good enough for where we're going or have gone or whatever it is we are supposed to be doing nowadays.

But you're basing this on only hearing one side of the story. Because the club have never responded to that. And nor should they.

Anyway. I think this thread's been done to death now so, I'm not going to bother adding my two penneth. I enjoyed reading the thread though. Very entertaining. The pro Mancini side won the debate, imho. Which, as it happens, is the side I come down on, surprisingly. And JoeMercer'sWay's rant on page 28 was the post of the thread. I thought that was worth a mention, as nobody else did.

Lol...your declaration that the "other" side won is hardly scientific proof. :) And besides, I don't think there are any pro Mancini/anti Mancini camps as there was with Hughes. The so called Anti-Mancini's have simply expressed concerns with some of his management skills but not demanded he be removed from the club like the anti-hughes brigade did.

With regards to the Petrov quote, that is the whole problem in that we only hear one side of the story. Had the club come out when the players were let go and released a personalized statement thanking the players for their contribution in a small blurb, then the rest of this goes away. Petrov's comment would look childish after that.

Instead they are dumped out of the club with a statement from the "club" on the website wishing them well without quotes. I mean give me a break. It's not like they are running a club with thousands upon thousands of employees to worry about. There should be no reason why the club can't take the time to personally thank players who are leaving the club under good circumstances. I worked for Adobe for 5 years in a senior but not managerial role but still had the VP of my group come to say some words to us when my group had been let go. That's just showing class.

This shit about sour grapes is simply excuse making as well. 1 or 2 players is sour grapes, 5 or 6 hints at a greater problem that you can't excuse away. These complaints about man management were one of the biggest knocks on Mancini when he was at Inter and ultimately the reason he was moved on from the club.

An Inter fan writing a blog at:

http://myargentinianfootball.blogspot.com/2008/05/future-of-inter-milan-mancini-to.html

had to this to say about why he was happy Mancini was leaving Inter:

1) He does not have the respect of the majority in the dressing room anymore. The majority of the the players have voted for him to leave. He has had spats with Figo, Crespo, Vieira, Ibrahimovic, and even the team doctors!

2) He quit abruptly after their loss to Liverpool. Then abruptly returned the next day.

3) Inter Milan's form has been gradually slipping since January. To the point where they almost lost their scudetto. Something that was inconceivable in January.

4) Which leads me to my next point. Inter Milan's cycle of success is done. As Cruyff says, teams have cycles. Many of Mancini's players are growing tired and restless under him.

5) Inter Milan did not have a winning record against any of the top teams in Serie A this season. (Not Roma, AC Milan, or Juventus).

6) Mancini isn't the guy to take them to Champions League glory. Their performance against Liverpool left much to be desired. He was sufficiently beat by a more tactically astute manager (Rafa Benitez). They have failed to make even the final four in the Champions League since Mancini has been in charge. While I think injuries have been a big issue in their European campaigns, the elite managers find a way to win. (see Liverpool's last CL title).

7) Also, in the biggest game of their CL campaign this year (the second leg against Liverpool), Mancini played a 4-1-2-1-2 formation, with Stankovic as his CAM. Since when was Stankovic their offensive "go-to" guy? Personally, I believe Mancini, Mihajlovic, and Stankovic are a close-knit bunch, and Mancini ultimately rewarded a player for his loyalty to him, rather than to play the more offensively talented midfielders like Figo and Solari.

This is not an attack on Mancini. I think he is an excellent manager. However, if he is to become an elite manager, he needs to improve on his European performances and his player management skills. Managers like Prandelli, Ancelotti and Mourinho, have the kind of respect where players are willing to follow them.

The notion of him as someone who struggles in European competition and with man management skills is supported by these additional articles from some highly respected news organizations:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_city/8423666.stm

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1117368/index.htm

We started to see signs of this towards the end of last season where rumors of bust-ups with the manager became quite frequent (Ireland, Tevez, Bellamy spring to mind right away) and this season they have continued with the same players plus now Shay and Adebayor.

As the blogger above stated, these aren't meant to be an attack on Mancini as he is a great manager. Us so called anti Mancinis simply want to see him improve an area that could turn him into an elite manager like Mourinho. The complaints aren't something new invented by City fans and some mad arse players as the pro Mancini camp paints it.

Even if Mancini isn't an "arm over the shoulder" type of guy, surely the club can afford to hire an individual whose job it is to liase with players and the manager to let them know exactly where they fit in a club, no? The most successful organizations in the world all implement some sort of employee management system that includes setting goals and providing feedback so that everyone is on the same page.

I for one would like to see a good quality manager given a long run like Ferguson with our team and the resources available but fear that this constant in-fighting with players is going to have a detrimental effect on the field at some point and we'll be going through another chop and change cycle which isn't in the club's best interest.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Very good and articulate post, Macmanson, and one which represents my views exactly.

There can be no doubt given the evidence available that he is an uncommunicative man manager. You also raise an imprtant issue which I have tried to - if Mancini isn't doing it - why isn't someone else?

Billy asked the question in his first reply to my original post - is it possible to be successful managing like this? Of course he had success at his other clubs but it remains to be seen whether this will work in England, especially at a team with a large number of big name players to keep happy.

We will find out this season. If he delivers success - and that means the top four as a bare minimum - then he is vindicated.

It is too early for anyone to say conclusively that his methods are right for City, or indeed wrong.

 

[JoeMercer'sWay]

1 inter's fan perspective...hardly representative of the whole feeling of the inter fans, though some of the points(mainly the CL) are valid, but Mancini will have hopefully learnt from it, and as DD said, it's too early to tell yet.

 

[macmanson]

1 inter's fan perspective...hardly representative of the whole feeling of the inter fans, though some of the points(mainly the CL) are valid, but Mancini will have hopefully learnt from it, and as DD said, it's too early to tell yet.

No, you're right that it may or may not represent a large percentage of Inter fans but it does show that these types of complaints existed prior to his tenure here. I certainly hope he learns from it and goes on to be a truly elite manager with our squad but that can only happen if he acknowledges that there is an issue. His often dismissive comments to the media don't portray this but then again Mancini doesn't ever seem to play the media straight anyways, so that's hardly a tell.

But having many players, some more credible than others, make the same complaint consistently hopefully registers with him. I've always been taught growing up that if 2 or more credible people are saying something to you, even if you don't agree with it, you have to acknowledge that there might be some validity to their point whether you personally like the inidividual(s) or not.

 

[persvenality cult]

The notion of him as someone who struggles in European competition and with man management skills is supported by these additional articles from some highly respected news organizations:

<a class="postlink" href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/teams/m/man_city/8423666.stm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/footbal ... 423666.stm</a>

<a class="postlink" href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/web/COM1117368/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm</a>

Completely bogus. They say nothing of the sort.