Battle Of Orgreave

stony said:
You're happy for the police to go around twatting people they don't like then?
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Agreed, any police violence is unjustified, they are here to protect society not attack it.

reasonable force yes but at Orgreave it was targetted assaults on the strikers
 
Comparisons between Orgreave and Hillsborough are absurd. The only meaningful common factor was SYP.

The latter was about 96 deaths that was substantively caused by SYP's collective negligence and incompetence. A stain on our nation.

The former was about the police being used as an instrument to protect the establishment and maintain the rule of law. Anyone who thinks the motive behind the miners' strike in 1984 was merely about pit closures is hopelessly naive. I'm afraid that the seeds of the police brutality were sown in the mid-70's, when the NUM significantly contributed to the downfall the Heath government. Doubtless, Thatcher made a promise to herself at that time that the same wouldn't be repeated on her watch - if she ever got the chance. The police, quite properly in my view, were utilised to prevent an industry subverting the democratic will of the electorate. As a consequence, certain officers will doubtless have crossed the line.

The 1984 strike was lost before it even started. Scargill, due to his appalling tactics and planning, and consumed and distracted by hubris, led his members to inevitable slaughter. Would the outcome for the coal industry have been any different if the strike hadn't happened? Probably not, but it manifestly demonstrated that we didn't 'need' domestic coal production and possibly emboldened the Tories to accelerate the closure programme, not least because the strike broke the will of the miners to resist it going forward.
 
Prestwich_Blue said:
It's an interesting one this. On one hand, there's no doubt the picket was intended to intimidate the lorry drivers if not completely make the plant inaccessible. One the other hand, there's no doubt the police were determined to ensure that didn't happen by whatever means possible and they intended a bigger show of force than the NUM could muster and one that was well-prepared for any eventuality. In the light of what's come out about Hillsborough, you'd now take their claim that they were acting in self-defence with a large pinch of salt.

But, unlike Hillsborough, there were no deaths and most of the charges brought by SYP against the pickets were thrown out of court. So I really don't see what purpose a public enquiry would serve. What does bother me though is that SYP, instead of openly and honetly admitting their mistakes back in 1989, were still actively seeking to deflect blame for Hillsborough onto the victims at the new inquests. That whole force clearly needs a good clean out from the top.
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This has got Thatchers dirty little mitts all over it ... and May and Rudd know it. They will fight to keep this buried as long as possible


A major step in the demolition of the Trade Unions and the destruction of workers rights .......which leads to where we are today with zero hours contracts and laws having to be passed to ensure that people are paid a ''minimum wage'' (Im sure some bosses would love to pay less)
 
stony said:
You're happy for the police to go around twatting people they don't like then?
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gordondaviesmoustache said:
Comparisons between Orgreave and Hillsborough are absurd. The only meaningful common factor was SYP.
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Comparisons are absurd, but Orgreave and Wapping before hilborough were instrumental in the atititude of the police during and after.
As part part of the then state sponsored encouragementof police forces to work without fear or public reprisal.
Shipping 7000 coppers from arround the country along with scab workers were acts of provacation, the fact a lot of officers were allowed to remove badge numbers (a practice GMP still use today unofficially) so not to be recognised is a disgrace in itself.
 
Ifwecouldjust....... said:
This has got Thatchers dirty little mitts all over it ... and May and Rudd know it. They will fight to keep this buried as long as possible


A major step in the demolition of the Trade Unions and the destruction of workers rights .......which leads to where we are today with zero hours contracts and laws having to be passed to ensure that people are paid a ''minimum wage'' (Im sure some bosses would love to pay less)
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damn-right.gif
 
Whether the Tories gave the police authority or not, from what I have seen and heard, the officers revelled in it. Disgusting bastards.

Tories and Police officers are on the same level in my opinion. Never met one who I would trust.
 
urban genie said:
Comparisons are absurd, but Orgreave and Wapping before hilborough were instrumental in the atititude of the police during and after.
As part part of the then state sponsored encouragementof police forces to work without fear or public reprisal.
Shipping 7000 coppers from arround the country along with scab workers were acts of provacation, the fact a lot of officers were allowed to remove badge numbers (a practice GMP still use today unofficially) so not to be recognised is a disgrace in itself.
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There was Grundy's (I think it was) in the 70's or Grundigs? Photography place on strike for a year and than the local express newspaper or was it messenger newspapers and their action in Warrington. All similar police action. Eddie shah? Twat
 
crizack said:
Whether the Tories gave the police authority or not, from what I have seen and heard, the officers revelled in it. Disgusting bastards.

Tories and Police officers are on the same level in my opinion. Never met one who I would trust.
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Get a life dick head, yep any other job and everyone's an angle.
 
A good watch is still the enemy within, recount the whole strike not just Orgreave though here is the bfa film




No one can tell me the MET and Kent police were nowt but bastards during it, burning tenners and goading strikers about how much.money they were earning while people were going hungry, if ever the term ACAB was appropriate it was for them wankers.
 
Dennis Skinner makes a wholly relevant point through his comments in the House of Commons yesterday:

Dennis Skinner Labour, Bolsover
Why is it that 31 years is too long for an inquiry, yet 31 years is not too long for this Government to carry on hiding the Cabinet papers on the strike and to refuse to release them? Why is it so long, when we know that the Thatcher Government were going to close 75 pits and not 20? The truth is that this nasty party has now become the nasty Government, who are more concerned about preserving the Thatcher legacy than they are fighting for truth and justice.
 
And meanwhile, Arthur Scargill lives it up in his £2 million Barbican flat bought with his discount from Thatchers right to buy policy.
 
Everyone knows Orgreave was politically motivated - that much is obvious.

A proclamation of what are generally already regarded by those that care as facts is not going to change anything moving forward. Those mistreated at the hands of the police, wrongfully arrested and/ or maliciously prosecuted could and should have brought civil claims if they wanted the police to be accountable for its misconduct.

I don't see how an enquiry will help to "reset" the public's view of the police as some have claimed. It seems to be the main argument of the people that wanted an enquiry. What has an enquiry about police misconduct and corruption from 30 years ago got to do with the public's view of the police now? Will it really suddenly restore their trust in them once the truth comes out? I just don't see the connection between the two. If there was one it would also be in the current Government's interests to hold an enquiry. Hillsborough was different as once the decision of the earlier inquest had been set aside a new one was legally required.

I honestly don't think the current Government is that concerned about the reputation of the Thatcher Government. Could it really get much worse than it already is? It's already reviled by the working class. A finding that it gave orders to rough up a few miners is hardly going to change the current political landscape.

This issue seems to have become much more important to Labour in opposition than when it was in Government. It did nothing about Hillsborough or Orgreave when it had the opportunity. It continued the Hillsborough cover up. The reason being that, unlike now with Orgreave, there was no political capital to be gained at the time from doing otherwise.
 
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