Brandon Barker for Navas?

[SilverFox2]

Do you think that for the same apparent talent at lower level the young players are all being judged as not good enough at PL level because a couple have not immediately made an impact at PL?

Maybe one of them will be able to adapt quickly to PL and take his talent with him?
Maybe they are not all the same when it comes to that transition ?
Unless we try we will never know.

We are quite happy to give some expensive purchases a lot of time to integrate yet that patience disappears with our own youngsters.

I understand why the manager gives his own purchases time yet filters out other expensive players he was not responsible for and it is only natural he wants to justify his recommended cash outlay.
However talent is talent and if any youngster has shown an ability to integrate with PL players during training surely he justifies the same patience if only to prove that ADUG have not wasted their money on our expensive Academy setup.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

But we are trying to build a sustainable club. Homegrown, and particularly club trained players are really important for the CL, if we never try any out we're deliberately hindering ourselves for short term gain over long term.

They have to sufficient quality and the most important part Manuel Pellegrini and team mates has to trust them. We can't throw in the kids for the sake of it. Lopes (another kid who is expected to go onto brighter things) but struggled against Watford in the FA Cup and was loaned out in the summer.

Why not?

Why can't we throw kids in for the sake of it?

You don't throw kids in "for the sake of it". You take a long term development strategy to ready them for top level football. Close to the top of that development pyramid is first team involvement: first training, then squad, then bit-part action, then games. Obviously each level of the pyramid must be successfully climbed to progress to the next.

But of course what you don't do is compromise precious points or trophies. That would be ridiculous. So, barring extenuating circumstances like we had with Pozo recently, you might give a player at the top of the pyramid 20 minutes when we are 3-0 up. And maybe progress from there.

It's not complicated stuff. The needs of the first team will always take priority. It is up to the Academy and the players whether they have it in them to reach that level. The days of "giving young players a go" went with the likes of Swales and Pearce.

I want us to play a strong team on Saturday so we progress in the cup and build a platform for the Chelsea game. That's priority. I would hazard a guess that a young player or two might be on the bench, because there's a good chance we could be in the "cruising" situation. But we don't take any risks on the result or the player's development.

 

[Cheadle_hulmeBlue]

Lets suppose we introduce an EDS player against borough and he has a reasonable /good game but we lose. He would probably not be seen again on the bench this season as all we have left to fight for will be the League and CL and as others have said, we would not have someone drop out to let an EDS player warm the bench on his behalf.

How would that affect his mental state. Was used, played well and now ignored.

There is only one right time to introduce these players and that is when the club deem them competent enough.
None of us on here can make that call

Wouldn't it effect them more if they never got a chance though. Was never used, never played and always ignored. As I said we could lose with our first team out. You seemed so scared and have so much fear in giving them a chance. If playing agaisnt boro for ten minutes isn't the right time then not one will play again this season. Going off what you've said and others the only time they should play is pre season or if we are 5-0 up.

It's as if you have to be 24, gone on ten loans or world class straight away, if not then you won't get a chance. And if we lose it's your fault. Well give players like mangala months to be good - make as many mistakes as you like. but if your not good straight from the off then Bye then. We are gonna end up like chelsea, loads of great young players who should be playing for chelsea probably save them Millions in transfer fees. You never know barker could do the same for us, maybe he is good enough.......................

 

[agyeiboateng]

what's the point of spending all this money on the academy if you are not going to bring through the talented players?

Only thing i miss from the pre take over days is the lack of academy players that have come through since. Neither Mancini or Pellegrini has shown faith in the youngsters. This was confirmed to me against Newcastle in the league cup where he fielded the first team and not one academy player. Newcastle played mostly their youngsters and won the game!

Of course I am not saying just put any average academy player in the starting line up just because they are from the academy, but Barker for example should be getting some minutes. Navas hasn't offered that much, and Barker surely deserves a shot even as a sub?

Barcelona has proven that giving talented players a chance can save you spending millions on players abroad. Look at Pool with Sterling and Spurs with Kane.
The likes of Bryan, and Barker deserve a chance

 

[agyeiboateng]

They have to sufficient quality and the most important part Manuel Pellegrini and team mates has to trust them. We can't throw in the kids for the sake of it. Lopes (another kid who is expected to go onto brighter things) but struggled against Watford in the FA Cup and was loaned out in the summer.

Why not?

Why can't we throw kids in for the sake of it?

You don't throw kids in "for the sake of it". You take a long term development strategy to ready them for top level football. Close to the top of that development pyramid is first team involvement: first training, then squad, then bit-part action, then games. Obviously each level of the pyramid must be successfully climbed to progress to the next.

But of course what you don't do is compromise precious points or trophies. That would be ridiculous. So, barring extenuating circumstances like we had with Pozo recently, you might give a player at the top of the pyramid 20 minutes when we are 3-0 up. And maybe progress from there.

It's not complicated stuff. The needs of the first team will always take priority. It is up to the Academy and the players whether they have it in them to reach that level. The days of "giving young players a go" went with the likes of Swales and Pearce.

I want us to play a strong team on Saturday so we progress in the cup and build a platform for the Chelsea game. That's priority. I would hazard a guess that a young player or two might be on the bench, because there's a good chance we could be in the "cruising" situation. But we don't take any risks on the result or the player's development.

What risks? This is so wrong. Toure is at the AFN, and Nasri is injured. Navas doesn't deserve to be starting as Arsenal showed. Why not play a youngster or let him come on as a sub. You honestly think a player like Barker can be much worse at the moment than Navas? Of course I am not saying Barker is better than Navas but sometimes a young player can inject a bit of buzz and fire that this city team is clearly lacking at the moment. This was evident against Burnely, Everton and Arsenal where we failed to take 3 points.

 

[mosssideblue]

Lets suppose we introduce an EDS player against borough and he has a reasonable /good game but we lose. He would probably not be seen again on the bench this season as all we have left to fight for will be the League and CL and as others have said, we would not have someone drop out to let an EDS player warm the bench on his behalf.

How would that affect his mental state. Was used, played well and now ignored.

There is only one right time to introduce these players and that is when the club deem them competent enough.
None of us on here can make that call

Wouldn't it effect them more if they never got a chance though. Was never used, never played and always ignored. As I said we could lose with our first team out. You seemed so scared and have so much fear in giving them a chance. If playing agaisnt boro for ten minutes isn't the right time then not one will play again this season. Going off what you've said and others the only time they should play is pre season or if we are 5-0 up.

It's as if you have to be 24, gone on ten loans or world class straight away, if not then you won't get a chance. And if we lose it's your fault. Well give players like mangala months to be good - make as many mistakes as you like. but if your not good straight from the off then Bye then. We are gonna end up like chelsea, loads of great young players who should be playing for chelsea probably save them Millions in transfer fees. You never know barker could do the same for us, maybe he is good enough.......................

I was trying to put another perspective on how someone might feel under a different scenario.

If you read my comments from earlier you will note I have no gripe with introducing youngsters but not whilst our first team needs to gel better than it has of late, partiularly when we want them to turn up and play like we know they can against the chavs.

Several have asked along this thread but no one has come back and said why they feel Barker is good enough. Offering he does it in the EDS is a bit of a false argument in my view.

I don't think any rational City fan would not want to see our youngsters on th epitch, but it has to be the right circumstances for the individual and the club.

 

[mosssideblue]

Why not?

Why can't we throw kids in for the sake of it?

You don't throw kids in "for the sake of it". You take a long term development strategy to ready them for top level football. Close to the top of that development pyramid is first team involvement: first training, then squad, then bit-part action, then games. Obviously each level of the pyramid must be successfully climbed to progress to the next.

But of course what you don't do is compromise precious points or trophies. That would be ridiculous. So, barring extenuating circumstances like we had with Pozo recently, you might give a player at the top of the pyramid 20 minutes when we are 3-0 up. And maybe progress from there.

It's not complicated stuff. The needs of the first team will always take priority. It is up to the Academy and the players whether they have it in them to reach that level. The days of "giving young players a go" went with the likes of Swales and Pearce.

I want us to play a strong team on Saturday so we progress in the cup and build a platform for the Chelsea game. That's priority. I would hazard a guess that a young player or two might be on the bench, because there's a good chance we could be in the "cruising" situation. But we don't take any risks on the result or the player's development.

What risks? This is so wrong. Toure is at the AFN, and Nasri is injured. Navas doesn't deserve to be starting as Arsenal showed. Why not play a youngster or let him come on as a sub. You honestly think a player like Barker can be much worse at the moment than Navas? Of course I am not saying Barker is better than Navas but sometimes a young player can inject a bit of buzz and fire that this city team is clearly lacking at the moment. This was evident against Burnely, Everton and Arsenal where we failed to take 3 points.

Oh dear. Navas might not have produced the final ball (to no one waiting in the box) but he put one hell of a shift in against the Arse and could walk off with his head held high.

 

[twosips]

Lets suppose we introduce an EDS player against borough and he has a reasonable /good game but we lose. He would probably not be seen again on the bench this season as all we have left to fight for will be the League and CL and as others have said, we would not have someone drop out to let an EDS player warm the bench on his behalf.

How would that affect his mental state. Was used, played well and now ignored.

There is only one right time to introduce these players and that is when the club deem them competent enough.
None of us on here can make that call

Wouldn't it effect them more if they never got a chance though. Was never used, never played and always ignored. As I said we could lose with our first team out. You seemed so scared and have so much fear in giving them a chance. If playing agaisnt boro for ten minutes isn't the right time then not one will play again this season. Going off what you've said and others the only time they should play is pre season or if we are 5-0 up.

It's as if you have to be 24, gone on ten loans or world class straight away, if not then you won't get a chance. And if we lose it's your fault. Well give players like mangala months to be good - make as many mistakes as you like. but if your not good straight from the off then Bye then. We are gonna end up like chelsea, loads of great young players who should be playing for chelsea probably save them Millions in transfer fees. You never know barker could do the same for us, maybe he is good enough.......................

I was trying to put another perspective on how someone might feel under a different scenario.

If you read my comments from earlier you will note I have no gripe with introducing youngsters but not whilst our first team needs to gel better than it has of late, partiularly when we want them to turn up and play like we know they can against the chavs.

Several have asked along this thread but no one has come back and said why they feel Barker is good enough. Offering he does it in the EDS is a bit of a false argument in my view.

I don't think any rational City fan would not want to see our youngsters on th epitch, but it has to be the right circumstances for the individual and the club.

So we're not allowed to think he has the potential and ability based on his viewings in the EDS game?

I think he's good enough cos i've watched his game and i think he just about everything you'd want from a modern footballer to succeed at the very highest level eventually and we need to give him game time to help push him on.

Arguing he's only ever done it in the EDS as a negative means that youre saying EDS means nowt and not one player EVER could go straight from the EDS into the first team by your standards which is, quite frankly, bullshit.

 

[Gareth Barry Conlon]

Why not?

Why can't we throw kids in for the sake of it?

You don't throw kids in "for the sake of it". You take a long term development strategy to ready them for top level football. Close to the top of that development pyramid is first team involvement: first training, then squad, then bit-part action, then games. Obviously each level of the pyramid must be successfully climbed to progress to the next.

But of course what you don't do is compromise precious points or trophies. That would be ridiculous. So, barring extenuating circumstances like we had with Pozo recently, you might give a player at the top of the pyramid 20 minutes when we are 3-0 up. And maybe progress from there.

It's not complicated stuff. The needs of the first team will always take priority. It is up to the Academy and the players whether they have it in them to reach that level. The days of "giving young players a go" went with the likes of Swales and Pearce.

I want us to play a strong team on Saturday so we progress in the cup and build a platform for the Chelsea game. That's priority. I would hazard a guess that a young player or two might be on the bench, because there's a good chance we could be in the "cruising" situation. But we don't take any risks on the result or the player's development.

What risks? This is so wrong. Toure is at the AFN, and Nasri is injured. Navas doesn't deserve to be starting as Arsenal showed. Why not play a youngster or let him come on as a sub. You honestly think a player like Barker can be much worse at the moment than Navas? Of course I am not saying Barker is better than Navas but sometimes a young player can inject a bit of buzz and fire that this city team is clearly lacking at the moment. This was evident against Burnely, Everton and Arsenal where we failed to take 3 points.

I don’t agree with all the rubbishing of Navas, the Arsenal game was not his best but in our recent good run he was a big part of the attacking threat against most teams and has more defensive discipline than he gets credit for.

I think over time we will see our squad morph into the total of foreign A list players we can get + Joe Hart + the rest from the EDS. I don’t see any English players who are gettable and good enough to make our first team so as the likes of Milner and Lampard leave they will be replaced by EDS and the opportunities will come. Right now the priority is to win something this year and that must mean strongest 11 each match.

 

[mosssideblue]

Wouldn't it effect them more if they never got a chance though. Was never used, never played and always ignored. As I said we could lose with our first team out. You seemed so scared and have so much fear in giving them a chance. If playing agaisnt boro for ten minutes isn't the right time then not one will play again this season. Going off what you've said and others the only time they should play is pre season or if we are 5-0 up.

It's as if you have to be 24, gone on ten loans or world class straight away, if not then you won't get a chance. And if we lose it's your fault. Well give players like mangala months to be good - make as many mistakes as you like. but if your not good straight from the off then Bye then. We are gonna end up like chelsea, loads of great young players who should be playing for chelsea probably save them Millions in transfer fees. You never know barker could do the same for us, maybe he is good enough.......................

I was trying to put another perspective on how someone might feel under a different scenario.

If you read my comments from earlier you will note I have no gripe with introducing youngsters but not whilst our first team needs to gel better than it has of late, partiularly when we want them to turn up and play like we know they can against the chavs.

Several have asked along this thread but no one has come back and said why they feel Barker is good enough. Offering he does it in the EDS is a bit of a false argument in my view.

I don't think any rational City fan would not want to see our youngsters on th epitch, but it has to be the right circumstances for the individual and the club.

So we're not allowed to think he has the potential and ability based on his viewings in the EDS game?

I think he's good enough cos i've watched his game and i think he just about everything you'd want from a modern footballer to succeed at the very highest level eventually and we need to give him game time to help push him on.

Arguing he's only ever done it in the EDS as a negative means that youre saying EDS means nowt and not one player EVER could go straight from the EDS into the first team by your standards which is, quite frankly, bullshit.

My goodness, I wish people would read a thread properly before responding with kneejerk typicality.

Where did I say in my post that your not allowed to think he has potential?
Youv'e watched him compete with PL or Championship players? thought not
He's everything youd want from a modern footballer - this was what you decided to throw back at me, but you havn't answered it (along with others who has stated the same) WHAT HAS HE GOT?
Doing it in the EDS is far different from doing it in the PL. Your counter argument suggests those two leagues are on the same level

Anyway, not wanting a pissing contest with you but would rather you read a post properly before going off on one.