Bundesliga review

[ManCitizens.]

Ownershipmodel like NFL, NBA, NHL or MLB would be an absolute no-go for me!

There shouldn't be a single ownership model for all clubs to follow, that’s my point. Each club should have a model that suits them best, not a regimented regime designed to keep the best teams at the top forever.

There is no right or wrong way, as long as the fans of the clubs are treated correctly and any promises/ commitments from the owner are fulfilled. For example, if QPR get relegated this season then Tony Fernandes should stay and sort the club out, as he's the one that's ploughed the money in.

Although i do agree with you in regards to American ownership model. Thankfully European club’s aren’t ‘franchises’ so we will never have to worry about that.

 

[bayern blade]

Just like the vast majority of 'traditional' Bundesliga teams.
Back home in Blighty, everybody thinks that the German model is somehow better than the British one. Ask yourselves the question why no team from the former GDR has ever been able to establish itself in the top flight. The whole system is run on money. After the wall came down, every 'western' team bought up the best from the east and basically killed those teams off. The eastern teams don't have the luxury of Porsche, BMW, Adidas, Mercedes, VW, Frankfurt Airport, DB, Telekom, etc, based in their cities, pumping money into the local football teams. The Bundesliga is geared up for the teams which have the most money and income from sponsors. Leverkusen was formed as a works club, like PSV Eindhoven, funded by the company, but those fans of 'traditional' clubs really f*in annoy me, when they get so agitated when a 'little' or 'new' club starts to challenge the status quo, conveniently forgetting that their own clubs have been funded for many years by out side investment.

Utter bullshit.

Almost all the east German teams were works clubs, hardly our fault that communism didn't actually work.

Stop whining, our taxes have rebuilt your bloody half of the country, you can't expect us to finance your football teams too.
Get real.<br /><br />-- Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:53 am --<br /><br />

Concerning the former GDR:
It was a ruined country. I read that only 6% of their jobs were competitive according to western standard.
The economic situation after 1989 didn't turn out as wanted, because several mistakes were made.
- The wages were too high to compete with Western companies.
- Western companies bought eastern companies and shut them to avoid competitors
And so on.

And you must not forget that the players were people with families who lived behind the iron wall and were able to earn big money in the west.

By the way: As far as I know Bayern or better Uli Hoeneß has been against the plundering. The first and only player he bought from eastern Germany was Alexander Zickler in 1993.

AND he knowingly paid well over the price he was worth simply to put some money in Dresden's coffers.

 

[Rhineland]

90% of Bundesliga fans are Gunners clones, they are saying same crap you hear from Arsenal fans

Nice statistic, where did you get that from?!

Ooh To Be A Gooner! though...

 

[Innsbruckblue]

Just like the vast majority of 'traditional' Bundesliga teams.
Back home in Blighty, everybody thinks that the German model is somehow better than the British one. Ask yourselves the question why no team from the former GDR has ever been able to establish itself in the top flight. The whole system is run on money. After the wall came down, every 'western' team bought up the best from the east and basically killed those teams off. The eastern teams don't have the luxury of Porsche, BMW, Adidas, Mercedes, VW, Frankfurt Airport, DB, Telekom, etc, based in their cities, pumping money into the local football teams. The Bundesliga is geared up for the teams which have the most money and income from sponsors. Leverkusen was formed as a works club, like PSV Eindhoven, funded by the company, but those fans of 'traditional' clubs really f*in annoy me, when they get so agitated when a 'little' or 'new' club starts to challenge the status quo, conveniently forgetting that their own clubs have been funded for many years by out side investment.

Utter bullshit.

Almost all the east German teams were works clubs, hardly our fault that communism didn't actually work.

Stop whining, our taxes have rebuilt your bloody half of the country, you can't expect us to finance your football teams too.
Get real.

Oh yes, now you've started! I really can't believe that an educated person could write such opinions.

1) I'm not from eastern Germany, I'm from Manchester. I just happen to have chosen the eastern part of your beautiful country to live in for work reasons.
2) 'Your' taxes have rebuilt 'my' half of the country. Do you pay a 'Solizuschlag' in your taxes? Because I do. Meaning that I pay extra tax to help fund the rebuilding of all of Germany (that includes the areas of the Ruhrpott which are dying). Is it not true that wages in the eastern part of Germany are kept deliberately lower than the west, for doing the exact same hours in the exact same job? And yet, prices in the shops are the same?
3) Whose taxes paid to rebuild the western part of Germany after WW2? It certainly wasn't 'your' taxes. West Germany's reconstruction was funded by taxes paid the British, French and American public, as a way of ensuring the the BRD would become a financially strong and successful buffer against the spread of communism from the east. This especially includes Bavaria, possibly the area most under threat. In a similar fashion, taxes paid by the people of the EU funded the rebuilding of the former GDR (and later, Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, etc.) to ensure that the threat of communism would not get a foothold in Europe again.
4) I'm going to presume you're from Bavaria. If you know your history, you'll know that Bavaria was an primarily agricultural state before WW2, and not very rich. In fact, one of the richest states in Germany was Saxony. When the Allies carved the country up between them, they moved all the financially viable companies from the east and set them up in the west. Including Audi amongst others. The German High Court was moved from Leipzig, and all the publishing houses, to areas of the west which were under US control - Bavaria, BW, Hessen, etc. How many moved back after the wall came down?
5) The football clubs in the GDR were not works teams. They were sponsored by state-run companies. When that system ended, the rich clubs from the west took all the best players, able to offer them more money, and made absolutely no effort to fund or aid the rebuilding of the stadia or footballing infrastructure in the former east. Funnily enough, when the Bundesliga started in the early 60s, this solidarity was one of the goals of the new league system under the DFB. Conveniently forgotten when the clubs from the 'new' states really needed help.

I would like to hear your response to these points, bayernblade.

 

[bayern blade]

Oh yes, now you've started!

1) I'm not from eastern Germany, I'm from Manchester. I just happen to have chosen the eastern part of your beautiful country to live in for work reasons.
2) 'Your' taxes have rebuilt 'my' half of the country. Do you pay a 'Solizuschlag' in your taxes? Because I do. Meaning that I pay extra tax to help fund the rebuilding of all of Germany (that includes the areas of the Ruhrpott which are dying). Is it not true that wages in the eastern part of Germany are kept deliberately lower than the west, for doing the exact same hours in the exact same job? And yet, prices in the shops are the same?
3) Whose taxes paid to rebuild the western part of Germany after WW2? It certainly wasn't 'your' taxes. West Germany's reconstruction was funded by taxes paid the British, French and American public, as a way of ensuring the the BRD would become a financially strong and successful buffer against the spread of communism from the east. This especially includes Bavaria, possibly the area most under threat. In a similar fashion, taxes paid by the people of the EU funded the rebuilding of the former GDR (and later, Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, etc.) to ensure that the threat of communism would not get a foothold in Europe again.
4) I'm going to presume you're from Bavaria. If you know your history, you'll know that Bavaria was an primarily agricultural state before WW2, and not very rich. In fact, one of the richest states in Germany was Saxony. When the Allies carved the country up between them, they moved all the financially viable companies from the east and set them up in the west. Including Audi amongst others. The German High Court was moved from Leipzig, and all the publishing houses, to areas of the west which were under US control - Bavaria, BW, Hessen, etc. How many moved back after the wall came down?
5) The football clubs in the GDR were not works teams. They were sponsored by state-run companies. When that system ended, the rich clubs from the west took all the best players, able to offer them more money, and made absolutely no effort to fund or aid the rebuilding of the stadia or footballing infrastructure in the former east. Funnily enough, when the Bundesliga started in the early 60s, this solidarity was one of the goals of the new league system under the DFB. Conveniently forgotten when the clubs from the 'new' states really needed help.

I would like to hear your response to these points, bayernblade.

A - Neither am I, I'm from Sheffield. I have however lived here since 1984 and well remember how much better off I was financially before the bloody wall came down.

B - Wages in the east are lower but then so is almost everything else, you could rent a huge flat in Leipzig or Dresden for the price of a parking space in Munich or Hamburg.

C - That is all irelevant, we aren't talking about after the war we are talking about after the wall and as someone who was here 6 years before that happened I can assure you that the rebuilding of the east cost us a bloody fortune.

D - I have lived many years in Bayern, as I said I'm from Sheffield. The fact is that the Russians plundered most of the industrial plant etc in the east in the years following the war. They ruined the place and West Germany has had to rebuild it.
Of course many firms moved west, who wouldn't rather than stagnate under communism ?
Many of these firms now once again have profitable branches in the east. I visited Leipzig and Magdeburg in the early 90's, you would not believe the difference these days.

E - When the wall came down the likes of Rostock and Dresden were allowed to join the Bundesliga at the top, they proved incapable of staying there, to change that they would have to have been given huge cash injections and players would have had to be kept at the clubs forcibly. Of course top players in the east wanted to come west, you could hardly blame them but it was a steady stream rather than an avalanche. As has been pointed out Bayern did not join in the search for eastern talent, we have also played many many benefits for the likes of Magdeburg and Dresden over the years.

 

[bayern blade]

Bayern - Bremen 6-1 (Robben, Martinez, Gomez 2, Ribery, 1 og).

 

[Innsbruckblue]

A - Neither am I, I'm from Sheffield. I have however lived here since 1984 and well remember how much better off I was financially before the bloody wall came down.

B - Wages in the east are lower but then so is almost everything else, you could rent a huge flat in Leipzig or Dresden for the price of a parking space in Munich or Hamburg.

C - That is all irelevant, we aren't talking about after the war we are talking about after the wall and as someone who was here 6 years before that happened I can assure you that the rebuilding of the east cost us a bloody fortune.

D - I have lived many years in Bayern, as I said I'm from Sheffield. The fact is that the Russians plundered most of the industrial plant etc in the east in the years following the war. They ruined the place and West Germany has had to rebuild it.
Of course many firms moved west, who wouldn't rather than stagnate under communism ?
Many of these firms now once again have profitable branches in the east. I visited Leipzig and Magdeburg in the early 90's, you would not believe the difference these days.

E - When the wall came down the likes of Rostock and Dresden were allowed to join the Bundesliga at the top, they proved incapable of staying there, to change that they would have to have been given huge cash injections and players would have had to be kept at the clubs forcibly. Of course top players in the east wanted to come west, you could hardly blame them but it was a steady stream rather than an avalanche. As has been pointed out Bayern did not join in the search for eastern talent, we have also played many many benefits for the likes of Magdeburg and Dresden over the years.

A- You almost certainly were. Supported by US money pumped in to West Germany to deliberately keep the economy strong as a buffer against communism.

B- Correct. We receive lower wages for the same job, and have the luxury of lower rents. However, utility bills are the same, shopping bills, electrical goods, cars, travel costs, etc.

C- The rebuilding of the east did not cost you a fortune. It cost (and still costs) the EU a fortune. That's why we all pay the 'Solizuschlag' on our taxes. The reason there is now less money in the west, is because the Allied governments are no longer artificially supporting the economy.

D- Indeed. You've hit the nail on the head as to why those firms moved west. But what happened after the wall came down? All property in the east went on to the market to be bought up by quick-thinking westerners. People who closed down almost every factory, making thousands of people redundant. All the flats were bought by westerners, people who now sit in luxury in Stuttgart or Munich, raking in thousands of euros a month in rent from easterners who cannot afford to buy property.

E- True, FC Bayern has played benefit games in the east. That wasn't my point though, was it? My point was the lack of aid and support for the whole footballing system in the east. The DFB and the Bundesliga clubs made no attempt to solve the problem of crumbling stadia and poor infrastructure. Surely a national football organisation's main responsibility in overseeing the sport it governs is to ensure that a minimum national standard of facilities exists?


I think it's a very narrow-minded view, shared by a lot of westerners, people who lived the good life for 40 years in a country that, without British, French and US government money being poured in, would have probably found themselves living under communism. People who resent helping their fellow Germans, giving them a hand to get back on their on feet, yet were ready and willing to accept financial aid 40 years before in order for them to get back on their feet. The ignorance and resentment from hypocritical westerners astounds me.

 

[LoveCity]

Bundesliga even more boring than the Premier League as far as the title race goes this season. The runaway leader thing is boring in any league although selfishly I would like to see City do it at least once. Interested in the Champions League race in the Bundesliga now, Dortmund have to be careful or they could lose Champions League football and that could hurt them.

 

[jake28]

Bundesliga even more boring than the Premier League as far as the title race goes this season. The runaway leader thing is boring in any league although selfishly I would like to see City do it at least once. Interested in the Champions League race in the Bundesliga now, Dortmund have to be careful or they could lose Champions League football and that could hurt them.

Welcome to the never ending era of Financial "Fair" Play.

 

[JollyGood]

Bundesliga even more boring than the Premier League as far as the title race goes this season. The runaway leader thing is boring in any league although selfishly I would like to see City do it at least once. Interested in the Champions League race in the Bundesliga now, Dortmund have to be careful or they could lose Champions League football and that could hurt them.

Welcome to the never ending era of Financial "Fair" Play.

Yeah, it's not like a team acting within Financial Fair Play won the league twice in germany, set a new record for points total last season and looks like a team good enough to beat anyone in Europe. There's no way that could ever happen and never would the manager or chairman of a club like Dortmund ever say anything positive about FFP.

Oh, wait.