Barker looks either completely shattered or completely out of form, so I'd be surprised if he got a game. The season might end too soon for Kelechi, as he's still getting his fitness back, otherwise I think he'd be really in with a shotgreasedupdeafguy said:
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can we see some youth please
- Thread starter ancoats
- Start date
Ray78 said:Not at this stage of the season. We are avoiding finishing 4th and the Champions League play off lottery.
My problem with this logic, and I keep repeating this, is that City will NEVER not be competing for something. If you don't play youth in pressure games then you're saying that City will never play youth in any game that isn't a friendly and we may as well knock that Academy down.
Every game is a cup final now. I don't understand why people cannot see the big hole in their argument with this.
Damocles said:Ray78 said:Not at this stage of the season. We are avoiding finishing 4th and the Champions League play off lottery.
My problem with this logic, and I keep repeating this, is that City will NEVER not be competing for something. If you don't play youth in pressure games then you're saying that City will never play youth in any game that isn't a friendly and we may as well knock that Academy down.
Every game is a cup final now. I don't understand why people cannot see the big hole in their argument with this.
I think people are very aware of that, Damo, and it's the reason why we're basically never going to see youth play at all. Pellegrini playing Pozo a few times back when we had no strikers, and him basically showing that he wasn't up for it (yet?) can't have helped also. I'm sure the club wants it to happen, but when managers know that playing youths will get them sacked for poor performances, who is going to be the fool who gets themselves fired for playing a weakened line-up?
As for knocking it down, that's not quite fair. It's frustrating to be sure, but a large part of the reason the club invested so much money into the place is the cash to be made from selling on the players who are never going to play for us. If we could sell 2-3 players a year for £5-10m, you're looking at a whole new player for the first team just funded by the academy. That in itself makes the academy worth it.
I'm not saying I advocate this refusal to play the kids, and I really wish we could bring some local kids through, but I can see why it happens.
The academy isn't even a year old yet, it's built for the long term future. Might be 5 years+ before we see a player good enough for our first team. Or even our first team squad. Barca don't produce a first team player every year. Like someone previously said, if we can sell on a few graduates a year and produce the odd diamond every year or so
Falastur said:I think people are very aware of that, Damo, and it's the reason why we're basically never going to see youth play at all. Pellegrini playing Pozo a few times back when we had no strikers, and him basically showing that he wasn't up for it (yet?) can't have helped also. I'm sure the club wants it to happen, but when managers know that playing youths will get them sacked for poor performances, who is going to be the fool who gets themselves fired for playing a weakened line-up?
I think that the board aren't morons and if we had a season like this season but also brought through Lopes and Denayer into first team regulars making 10-15 appearances, then they'd understand. I vehemently disagree that we won't see any youth played - we'll sack this manager partially due to his lack of bravery in introducing youth players and the next manager will have this made perfectly clear to him. Homegrown players in the squad is not negotiable position as manager of any PL team but especially Manchester City now. Everything that we're trying to do at home and abroad, every new marketing step and stylistic football choice, all of our future budgetary plans are based around having a successful youth system.
As for knocking it down, that's not quite fair. It's frustrating to be sure, but a large part of the reason the club invested so much money into the place is the cash to be made from selling on the players who are never going to play for us. If we could sell 2-3 players a year for £5-10m, you're looking at a whole new player for the first team just funded by the academy. That in itself makes the academy worth it.
I'm not saying I advocate this refusal to play the kids, and I really wish we could bring some local kids through, but I can see why it happens.
I understand these objections. I just think they're based on cowardice and neither our CEO or owner will accept them as possible reasons. There are many, many people who seemingly do not understand what Manchester City are trying to accomplish and how paramount the youth system is to this.
And you don't spend £200m on an Academy to sell a couple of players each year. We could have done that with Carrington and Platt Lane.
Rascal
El Presidente
Damocles said:Falastur said:I think people are very aware of that, Damo, and it's the reason why we're basically never going to see youth play at all. Pellegrini playing Pozo a few times back when we had no strikers, and him basically showing that he wasn't up for it (yet?) can't have helped also. I'm sure the club wants it to happen, but when managers know that playing youths will get them sacked for poor performances, who is going to be the fool who gets themselves fired for playing a weakened line-up?
I think that the board aren't morons and if we had a season like this season but also brought through Lopes and Denayer into first team regulars making 10-15 appearances, then they'd understand. I vehemently disagree that we won't see any youth played - we'll sack this manager partially due to his lack of bravery in introducing youth players and the next manager will have this made perfectly clear to him. Homegrown players in the squad is not negotiable position as manager of any PL team but especially Manchester City now. Everything that we're trying to do at home and abroad, every new marketing step and stylistic football choice, all of our future budgetary plans are based around having a successful youth system.
As for knocking it down, that's not quite fair. It's frustrating to be sure, but a large part of the reason the club invested so much money into the place is the cash to be made from selling on the players who are never going to play for us. If we could sell 2-3 players a year for £5-10m, you're looking at a whole new player for the first team just funded by the academy. That in itself makes the academy worth it.
I'm not saying I advocate this refusal to play the kids, and I really wish we could bring some local kids through, but I can see why it happens.
I understand these objections. I just think they're based on cowardice and neither our CEO or owner will accept them as possible reasons. There are many, many people who seemingly do not understand what Manchester City are trying to accomplish and how paramount the youth system is to this.
And you don't spend £200m on an Academy to sell a couple of players each year. We could have done that with Carrington and Platt Lane.
Reading far too much into pal.
If a kid is good enough he will play, if he isnt he wont.
Simple.
Rascal said:Damocles said:Falastur said:I think people are very aware of that, Damo, and it's the reason why we're basically never going to see youth play at all. Pellegrini playing Pozo a few times back when we had no strikers, and him basically showing that he wasn't up for it (yet?) can't have helped also. I'm sure the club wants it to happen, but when managers know that playing youths will get them sacked for poor performances, who is going to be the fool who gets themselves fired for playing a weakened line-up?
I think that the board aren't morons and if we had a season like this season but also brought through Lopes and Denayer into first team regulars making 10-15 appearances, then they'd understand. I vehemently disagree that we won't see any youth played - we'll sack this manager partially due to his lack of bravery in introducing youth players and the next manager will have this made perfectly clear to him. Homegrown players in the squad is not negotiable position as manager of any PL team but especially Manchester City now. Everything that we're trying to do at home and abroad, every new marketing step and stylistic football choice, all of our future budgetary plans are based around having a successful youth system.
As for knocking it down, that's not quite fair. It's frustrating to be sure, but a large part of the reason the club invested so much money into the place is the cash to be made from selling on the players who are never going to play for us. If we could sell 2-3 players a year for £5-10m, you're looking at a whole new player for the first team just funded by the academy. That in itself makes the academy worth it.
I'm not saying I advocate this refusal to play the kids, and I really wish we could bring some local kids through, but I can see why it happens.
I understand these objections. I just think they're based on cowardice and neither our CEO or owner will accept them as possible reasons. There are many, many people who seemingly do not understand what Manchester City are trying to accomplish and how paramount the youth system is to this.
And you don't spend £200m on an Academy to sell a couple of players each year. We could have done that with Carrington and Platt Lane.
Reading far too much into pal.
If a kid is good enough he will play, if he isnt he wont.
Simple.
Simplistic rather than simple.
Our kids aren't competing with Barry Conlon or even Jon Macken any more. The idea that we're going to get a kid out of our Academy who is ALREADY better than world class players like Aguero or Dzeko is a fantasy. These are some of the world's elite players and there's no 16 year old in the entire world who is better than Aguero, Dzeko, Bony or Jovetic. I mean how COULD they be better than them? They haven't developed mentally nor technically because they're only 16. And they'll never get to their level by 21 if they don't play games for a top club. Games for the sake of games are useless and Lionel Messi didn't get loaned to Accrington for a very good reason.
The "well if a kid is good enough then he'll play" is not just bollocks but fantasy. No youth player will be better than a single member of our first team because our first team is full of PL challenging players and our youth player is a teenager. That's exactly WHY clubs don't have good youth systems - because playing a youth player at a top club means that you're sacrificing the short term for the long term in the hope that the talent you've spotted in the kid will be fulfilled due to their appearances and eventually make them better than the person they're replacing.
greasedupdeafguy
Well-Known Member
like Matic and Pogba?Rascal said:Damocles said:Falastur said:I think people are very aware of that, Damo, and it's the reason why we're basically never going to see youth play at all. Pellegrini playing Pozo a few times back when we had no strikers, and him basically showing that he wasn't up for it (yet?) can't have helped also. I'm sure the club wants it to happen, but when managers know that playing youths will get them sacked for poor performances, who is going to be the fool who gets themselves fired for playing a weakened line-up?
I think that the board aren't morons and if we had a season like this season but also brought through Lopes and Denayer into first team regulars making 10-15 appearances, then they'd understand. I vehemently disagree that we won't see any youth played - we'll sack this manager partially due to his lack of bravery in introducing youth players and the next manager will have this made perfectly clear to him. Homegrown players in the squad is not negotiable position as manager of any PL team but especially Manchester City now. Everything that we're trying to do at home and abroad, every new marketing step and stylistic football choice, all of our future budgetary plans are based around having a successful youth system.
As for knocking it down, that's not quite fair. It's frustrating to be sure, but a large part of the reason the club invested so much money into the place is the cash to be made from selling on the players who are never going to play for us. If we could sell 2-3 players a year for £5-10m, you're looking at a whole new player for the first team just funded by the academy. That in itself makes the academy worth it.
I'm not saying I advocate this refusal to play the kids, and I really wish we could bring some local kids through, but I can see why it happens.
I understand these objections. I just think they're based on cowardice and neither our CEO or owner will accept them as possible reasons. There are many, many people who seemingly do not understand what Manchester City are trying to accomplish and how paramount the youth system is to this.
And you don't spend £200m on an Academy to sell a couple of players each year. We could have done that with Carrington and Platt Lane.
Reading far too much into pal.
If a kid is good enough he will play, if he isnt he wont.
Simple.
I don't agree with the logic of promoting youth players at all costs either. Especially in the current environment that is surrounding the first team. I have been called an imbecile in this forum but that is my beliefs regarding City's youth policy.
Ray78 said:I don't agree with the logic of promoting youth players at all costs either, especially in the environment that surrounding the first team.
It depends on what you mean though. Obviously there has to be some quality control and we shouldn't sell Aguero and stick Pozo in, but the people like Denayer, Lopes and Barker are absolutely better for the squad than the Boyatas, Jovetics and Sinclairs.
We'll have to wait and see on Barker but Denayer and Lopes are going to be good players worthy of a PL place full time and the only way we'll see if they're good enough for us is to continue their development in the City team
There's no reason why we couldn't have had 3 youth players in our setup this year and gave them 10 appearances each already.
I understand the opposite view from this, I really do. People want to win at all costs and any other considerations should be secondary. It's this type of short term thinking though that wrecks squads and overplays them because people are change resistant which is why I keep using the chosen words or bravery and cowardice.
It takes balls to put your faith in a young player because people will slag you off for it. Nobody will slag you off for playing David Silva. People should look up and down our squad and realise that we're good enough to beat about 80 teams in English system with our second team. The other 12 are beatable with our first team and would argue that even then we could stick in a youth player for 10 minutes at the end of big games.
Not playing the kids against Chelsea I can get behind. Not playing the kids whilst 6-0 up against West Ham or against Championship teams is wilfully ignorant.