can we see some youth please

[Ray78]

I don't agree with the logic of promoting youth players at all costs either, especially in the environment that surrounding the first team.

It depends on what you mean though. Obviously there has to be some quality control and we shouldn't sell Aguero and stick Pozo in, but the people like Denayer, Lopes and Barker are absolutely better for the squad than the Boyatas, Jovetics and Sinclairs.

We'll have to wait and see on Barker but Denayer and Lopes are going to be good players worthy of a PL place full time and the only way we'll see if they're good enough for us is to continue their development in the City team

There's no reason why we couldn't have had 3 youth players in our setup this year and gave them 10 appearances each already.

I understand the opposite view from this, I really do. People want to win at all costs and any other considerations should be secondary. It's this type of short term thinking though that wrecks squads and overplays them because people are change resistant which is why I keep using the chosen words or bravery and cowardice.

It takes balls to put your faith in a young player because people will slag you off for it. Nobody will slag you off for playing David Silva. People should look up and down our squad and realise that we're good enough to beat about 80 teams in English system with our second team. The other 12 are beatable with our first team and would argue that even then we could stick in a youth player for 10 minutes at the end of big games.

Not playing the kids against Chelsea I can get behind. Not playing the kids whilst 6-0 up against West Ham or against Championship teams is wilfully ignorant.

Lopes did well in the semi final against West Ham last season. He was shown enough faith to start him in the FA Cup game against Watford alongside the likes of Pants Richards (he was hooked off at halftime), Yaya, Kolarov, Lescott, Demichelis, Rodwell (he was the second sub at halftime) , Aguero and Dzeko but struggled to make an impact in that game and we found ourselves 2-0 down at half time and was subbed off after 57 minutes. Shortly after that change we got a lifeline back into the game

 

[Damocles]

I don't agree with the logic of promoting youth players at all costs either, especially in the environment that surrounding the first team.

It depends on what you mean though. Obviously there has to be some quality control and we shouldn't sell Aguero and stick Pozo in, but the people like Denayer, Lopes and Barker are absolutely better for the squad than the Boyatas, Jovetics and Sinclairs.

We'll have to wait and see on Barker but Denayer and Lopes are going to be good players worthy of a PL place full time and the only way we'll see if they're good enough for us is to continue their development in the City team

There's no reason why we couldn't have had 3 youth players in our setup this year and gave them 10 appearances each already.

I understand the opposite view from this, I really do. People want to win at all costs and any other considerations should be secondary. It's this type of short term thinking though that wrecks squads and overplays them because people are change resistant which is why I keep using the chosen words or bravery and cowardice.

It takes balls to put your faith in a young player because people will slag you off for it. Nobody will slag you off for playing David Silva. People should look up and down our squad and realise that we're good enough to beat about 80 teams in English system with our second team. The other 12 are beatable with our first team and would argue that even then we could stick in a youth player for 10 minutes at the end of big games.

Not playing the kids against Chelsea I can get behind. Not playing the kids whilst 6-0 up against West Ham or against Championship teams is wilfully ignorant.

Lopes did well in the semi final against West Ham last season. He was shown enough faith to start him in the FA Cup game against Watford alongside the likes of Pants Richards, Yaya, Kolarov, Lescott, Demichelis, Pants, Aguero and Dzeko but struggled to make an impact in that game and we found ourselves 2-0 down at half time and was subbed off after 57 minutes. Shortly after that change we got a lifeline back into the game

And has not played a single minute for City since.

That is a standard that not even our first team players are held to and it makes no sense at all to apply them to a developing young player

 

[Ray78]

It depends on what you mean though. Obviously there has to be some quality control and we shouldn't sell Aguero and stick Pozo in, but the people like Denayer, Lopes and Barker are absolutely better for the squad than the Boyatas, Jovetics and Sinclairs.

We'll have to wait and see on Barker but Denayer and Lopes are going to be good players worthy of a PL place full time and the only way we'll see if they're good enough for us is to continue their development in the City team

There's no reason why we couldn't have had 3 youth players in our setup this year and gave them 10 appearances each already.

I understand the opposite view from this, I really do. People want to win at all costs and any other considerations should be secondary. It's this type of short term thinking though that wrecks squads and overplays them because people are change resistant which is why I keep using the chosen words or bravery and cowardice.

It takes balls to put your faith in a young player because people will slag you off for it. Nobody will slag you off for playing David Silva. People should look up and down our squad and realise that we're good enough to beat about 80 teams in English system with our second team. The other 12 are beatable with our first team and would argue that even then we could stick in a youth player for 10 minutes at the end of big games.

Not playing the kids against Chelsea I can get behind. Not playing the kids whilst 6-0 up against West Ham or against Championship teams is wilfully ignorant.

Lopes did well in the semi final against West Ham last season. He was shown enough faith to start him in the FA Cup game against Watford alongside the likes of Pants Richards, Yaya, Kolarov, Lescott, Demichelis, Pants, Aguero and Dzeko but struggled to make an impact in that game and we found ourselves 2-0 down at half time and was subbed off after 57 minutes. Shortly after that change we got a lifeline back into the game

And has not played a single minute for City since.

That is a standard that not even our first team players are held to and it makes no sense at all to apply them to a developing young player

Pellegrini brought on Pozo this season albeit out of position and only he can fully answer why he made that change) ahead of Dzeko against Everton.

 

[Damocles]

Pellegrini brought on Pozo this season albeit out of position and only he can fully answer why he made that change ahead of Dzeko against Everton.

Another good example - the lad was brought on out of position in a system that played to all of his weaknesses and none of his strengths, against a highly physical team on a muddy December pitch.

He didn't perform well now he's getting written off as "had his chance" from some quarters.

If we played Navas at left back and he didn't perform well then there would be an agreement that he hasn't really had a decent chance to show what he can do. Many I've had this conversation with on here point to Pozo as an example of Pellers giving youth a chance.

Again, one of our problems is that we are judging youth players on standards that we don't even judge our £30m signings in the first team on. There's no reason why Pozo couldn't have played another 10 times this season at various points - not 10 starts obviously but 10 appearances to further develop him would have been extremely valuable to his career here.

Instead people want to loan him out to a different coaching team who play a different brand of football and see if he does well there. This isn't really youth development but instead is farming out youth development to others, which is one of my criticisms of our current setup. If we're sending people out to top division teams competing in Europe then they are already good enough to get games in our team and we can make decisions on them - Lopes is a good example of this done right, Rekik a good example of this done badly.

 

[daztrueblue91]

Why all the fuss about giving youth players chance. The fact is none of them are ready and the ones who look most likely to make the grade are getting minutes elsewhere on loan which is where they should be.

A manager should assemble the best 23 man squad available to him at the start of the season and then loan the best young prospects out if they are not in the list. Then at the end of the season, evaluate the squad and see if any of the youngsters would be an improvement on players in the list.

For example, a good case could be made for Denayer and Lopes to replace Boyata (and share more games with Demichellis) and Milner. What will not happen is for Denayer to replace Kompany or Lopes to replace Nasri. Top class players need top class replacements at this level.

You bring the young players back as squad players first and see if they can seize their chance but first make sure that they will 100% get an good opportunity (15-20 appearances) in the season.

 

[Damocles]

Why all the fuss about giving youth players chance. The fact is none of them are ready and the ones who look most likely to make the grade are getting minutes elsewhere on loan which is where they should be.

Youth players cost the club about £2m. An equivalent player from another club costs about £20m. This gives us £18m to spend elsewhere. It also means that we'll adhere to homegrown regulations and financial fair play. My question to other people is why is almost nobody arsed about this incredibly important aspect of a football club apart from me and seemingly the people who run the place?

A manager should assemble the best 23 man squad available to him at the start of the season and then loan the best young prospects out if they are not in the list. Then at the end of the season, evaluate the squad and see if any of the youngsters would be an improvement on players in the list.

This cannot work for the reasons already stated in the past two pages.

For example, a good case could be made for Denayer and Lopes to replace Boyata (and share more games with Demichellis) and Milner. What will not happen is for Denayer to replace Kompany or Lopes to replace Nasri. Top class players need top class replacements at this level.

Nobody is asking for the ridiculous notion that one of our young players should get games in front of our key players.

You bring the young players back as squad players first and see if they can seize their chance but first make sure that they will 100% get an good opportunity (15-20 appearances) in the season.

This is what I'm asking for and don't see how a loan deal to a club that plays totally different football in a totally different league under a totally different coaching strategy is in anyway helpful with our best young players. Those out on loan should be the people that we're not really high on but might make it given some development, using other clubs as a finishing school for our players is pointless. Or at least using any of the clubs we're loaning out to - I have no problem with loaning inside the City Football Group as we retain control of their development

 

[Ray78]

Pellegrini brought on Pozo this season albeit out of position and only he can fully answer why he made that change ahead of Dzeko against Everton.

Another good example - the lad was brought on out of position in a system that played to all of his weaknesses and none of his strengths, against a highly physical team on a muddy December pitch.

He didn't perform well now he's getting written off as "had his chance" from some quarters.

If we played Navas at left back and he didn't perform well then there would be an agreement that he hasn't really had a decent chance to show what he can do. Many I've had this conversation with on here point to Pozo as an example of Pellers giving youth a chance.

Again, one of our problems is that we are judging youth players on standards that we don't even judge our £30m signings in the first team on. There's no reason why Pozo couldn't have played another 10 times this season at various points - not 10 starts obviously but 10 appearances to further develop him would have been extremely valuable to his career here.

Instead people want to loan him out to a different coaching team who play a different brand of football and see if he does well there. This isn't really youth development but instead is farming out youth development to others, which is one of my criticisms of our current setup. If we're sending people out to top division teams competing in Europe then they are already good enough to get games in our team and we can make decisions on them - Lopes is a good example of this done right, Rekik a good example of this done badly.

We don't randomly send our youth players out to other clubs without little consideration either. Lille was the club that gave Hazard his big break in football and along with their current manager has bags of experience in developing younger players (Girard has had 6 years experience with France's youth programme along with winning the Ligue 1 title ahead of Ancelotti), Lopes would of been a very good player to send him to.

 

[daztrueblue91]

Why all the fuss about giving youth players chance. The fact is none of them are ready and the ones who look most likely to make the grade are getting minutes elsewhere on loan which is where they should be.

Youth players cost the club about £2m. An equivalent player from another club costs about £20m. This gives us £18m to spend elsewhere. It also means that we'll adhere to homegrown regulations and financial fair play. My question to other people is why is almost nobody arsed about this incredibly important aspect of a football club apart from me and seemingly the people who run the place?

A manager should assemble the best 23 man squad available to him at the start of the season and then loan the best young prospects out if they are not in the list. Then at the end of the season, evaluate the squad and see if any of the youngsters would be an improvement on players in the list.

This cannot work for the reasons already stated in the past two pages.

For example, a good case could be made for Denayer and Lopes to replace Boyata (and share more games with Demichellis) and Milner. What will not happen is for Denayer to replace Kompany or Lopes to replace Nasri. Top class players need top class replacements at this level.

Nobody is asking for the ridiculous notion that one of our young players should get games in front of our key players.

You bring the young players back as squad players first and see if they can seize their chance but first make sure that they will 100% get an good opportunity (15-20 appearances) in the season.

This is what I'm asking for and don't see how a loan deal to a club that plays totally different football in a totally different league under a totally different coaching strategy is in anyway helpful with our best young players. Those out on loan should be the people that we're not really high on but might make it given some development, using other clubs as a finishing school for our players is pointless. Or at least using any of the clubs we're loaning out to - I have no problem with loaning inside the City Football Group as we retain control of their development

Maybe not but the young players will still be getting a chance at the expense of players who are currently better than them.

This season alone some people were asking for Angelinho and Barker to start ahead of Kolarov and Navas. I honestly do not see how in any way that makes our team stronger.

I actually agree with bringing through youth, but think it should be done when they are ready to compete for a first team spot rather than for the sake of it.

I also understand what you are saying about the loan system but you just have to see the progress Denayer and Lopes have made to see how successful it can be. At the start of the season there was no way Denayer would have got games ahead of Manga, VK and Demi. At best he would have took Boyata's place and made about 5 appearances. Due to his loan we have a teenage Belgian international on our hands.

Loans can be used to develop a variety of skills which is why I think they are good for the young players. For example, we know Barker and Pozo are talented but they are too lightweight for the league. Perhaps a loan the the championship will help them toughen up.

 

[@BluePhil8]

The fact that a 24 year old Boyata, who is appallingly bad, is getting minutes before any of the youth is damning.


A 36 year old Lampard is still playing instead of any youth players.

We have essentially sewn up the top 3 now, what is the purpose in staying loyal to older players who won't be here next season? We're in a bad way re: Youth currently.

 

[Centurions]

The fact that a 24 year old Boyata, who is appallingly bad, is getting minutes before any of the youth is damning.


A 36 year old Lampard is still playing instead of any youth players.

We have essentially sewn up the top 3 now, what is the purpose in staying loyal to older players who won't be here next season? We're in a bad way re: Youth currently.

But we weren't guaranteed top 4 before Spuds so your comment makes no sense.