City and Religion

[Anonymous]

Again, this is a myth that was perpetuated by Busby in the 50's (there is interview footage of him saying "United are the Catholic club" and despite him being Catholic played for City, this so called Protestant club, in the the 30s before going on to play for Liverpool too).

I'm not sure tickets were divvied out to schools based on religion - my dad went to St Francis School (the Monastery in Gorton essentially, so pretty safe to say it was a Catholic school, what with him being a Catholic and all that) and the majority of kids in the school were City fans. In his day to day life, most of his mates were City fans and Catholics too. Bizarrely, his best mate was at a C of E school and was a rabid red.

Yes the club was formed indirectly as a result of meetings via St Marks church - a Protestant church - but I am not entirely convinced we set up as a Protestant Football Club with divides along strictly sectarian lines.

I'll say again, we were not, have not and are unlikely ever to be a Protestant Club. Or a Catholic one. Or a Muslim one. Or a Jewish one. Or a Zoroastrian one. Or a Branch Davidian one. Or a Scientologist one.

We are Manchester City FOOTBALL Club.

Any link with Rangers is in the febrile minds of the naive at best, sectarian wannabes at worst.

You are born a Blue. It's in your blood. It's in your DNA. It's not in your religion or another team in another country be that Scotland, France, Germany, Spain, Italy or Krygyzstan.

 

[Gary James]

via St Marks church - a Protestant church - but I am not entirely convinced we set up as a Protestant Football Club with divides along strictly sectarian lines.

I'll say again, we were not, have not and are unlikely ever to be a Protestant Club. Or a Catholic one. Or a Muslim one. Or a Jewish one. Or a Zoroastrian one. Or a Branch Davidian one. Or a Scientologist one.

We are Manchester City FOOTBALL Club.

Totally agree. The religious angle is really unimportant. City may have been formed initially by members of a CofE church but, apart from some individuals who remained involved with the club, those links soon disappeared. In fact I think I'd probably argue now that it could be that the boys who started playing in 1880 used the church to set up the organisation rather than the church specifically saying "we need an association football team and you chaps will play in it." As I've said before the club's first major successes took place with Catholic and protestant directors, a catholic manager (quite passionate about his religion and about Irish independence but also talked as a supporter of the British army - what a minefield in that simple one line description!), a team made up of methodists, catholics, protestants and who knows what else, and supported by Mancunians (made up of recent arrivals in the city, as well as catholics, protestants, jews and possibly much more).

Individuals (most notably Louis Rocca at Utd) have tried to encourage Manchester to think along religious lines and, while it does seem as if there's more evidence to show that MUFC were more of a catholic club than protestant, it's inappropriate to focus on religion with City. I have seen some good research into Irish catholic support of MCFC; I've found references to Jewish support going back more than 100 years and so on. In the last 120ish years City have had shareholders and directors with various religious beliefs (catholic, protestant, muslim, jewish, atheists and who knows what else).

The great thing about City to me is that the club represents Manchester - a diverse, multicultural and tolerant city now but exactly that when the club achieved its first successes. Manchester City represents all. If we focus on religious divides then we'll be doing a great disservice to those who brought the club its first successes and those that have supported the club since the beginning.

 

[lancs blue]

Again, this is a myth that was perpetuated by Busby in the 50's (there is interview footage of him saying "United are the Catholic club" and despite him being Catholic played for City, this so called Protestant club, in the the 30s before going on to play for Liverpool too).

I'm not sure tickets were divvied out to schools based on religion - my dad went to St Francis School (the Monastery in Gorton essentially, so pretty safe to say it was a Catholic school, what with him being a Catholic and all that) and the majority of kids in the school were City fans. In his day to day life, most of his mates were City fans and Catholics too. Bizarrely, his best mate was at a C of E school and was a rabid red.

Yes the club was formed indirectly as a result of meetings via St Marks church - a Protestant church - but I am not entirely convinced we set up as a Protestant Football Club with divides along strictly sectarian lines.

I'll say again, we were not, have not and are unlikely ever to be a Protestant Club. Or a Catholic one. Or a Muslim one. Or a Jewish one. Or a Zoroastrian one. Or a Branch Davidian one. Or a Scientologist one.

We are Manchester City FOOTBALL Club.

Any link with Rangers is in the febrile minds of the naive at best, sectarian wannabes at worst.

You are born a Blue. It's in your blood. It's in your DNA. It's not in your religion or another team in another country be that Scotland, France, Germany, Spain, Italy or Krygyzstan.

Excellent post. With regard to the free ressies tickets I can reinforce the highlighted bit, both clubs distributed them to my (catholic) junior school in the 60s. As a blue from a very early age nobody ever told me I should be supporting the rags because I was a catholic. Just as well or the response might have startled them. ;-)

 

[remember arthur mann]

Being born in Daniels den that is Newton Heath, you can be assured of it's irish catholic community. The local Irish Priest would do his ritual door to door "Penny a brick" collection every week in support of rebuilding the local church that is Christ the King . His usual patter would be don't forget to attend Mass on Sunday AND! go down and support your (local) team, manure, strange that ,as I am a descendent of the Huguenots and was christened at All Saints C of E, needless to say he got short shrift. So yes, manure were a catholic team and CITY the prodedogs! Oh! and I married a left footer and worked voluntary at the C the King youth club.

 

[Anonymous]

via St Marks church - a Protestant church - but I am not entirely convinced we set up as a Protestant Football Club with divides along strictly sectarian lines.

I'll say again, we were not, have not and are unlikely ever to be a Protestant Club. Or a Catholic one. Or a Muslim one. Or a Jewish one. Or a Zoroastrian one. Or a Branch Davidian one. Or a Scientologist one.

We are Manchester City FOOTBALL Club.

Totally agree. The religious angle is really unimportant. City may have been formed initially by members of a CofE church but, apart from some individuals who remained involved with the club, those links soon disappeared. In fact I think I'd probably argue now that it could be that the boys who started playing in 1880 used the church to set up the organisation rather than the church specifically saying "we need an association football team and you chaps will play in it." As I've said before the club's first major successes took place with Catholic and protestant directors, a catholic manager (quite passionate about his religion and about Irish independence but also talked as a supporter of the British army - what a minefield in that simple one line description!), a team made up of methodists, catholics, protestants and who knows what else, and supported by Mancunians (made up of recent arrivals in the city, as well as catholics, protestants, jews and possibly much more).

Individuals (most notably Louis Rocca at Utd) have tried to encourage Manchester to think along religious lines and, while it does seem as if there's more evidence to show that MUFC were more of a catholic club than protestant, it's inappropriate to focus on religion with City. I have seen some good research into Irish catholic support of MCFC; I've found references to Jewish support going back more than 100 years and so on. In the last 120ish years City have had shareholders and directors with various religious beliefs (catholic, protestant, muslim, jewish, atheists and who knows what else).

The great thing about City to me is that the club represents Manchester - a diverse, multicultural and tolerant city now but exactly that when the club achieved its first successes. Manchester City represents all. If we focus on religious divides then we'll be doing a great disservice to those who brought the club its first successes and those that have supported the club since the beginning.

Everything I tried to say captured in a couple of sentences!

 

[Why Always Ste]

I don't think Religion divides the two clubs whatsoever.
Speaking to a Rag I know today who was born in the 50's, brought up in Manchester, didn't go to a Catholic school yet is a long term Rag.
His view is the same, that there is no religious divide.
My Father's Parents went to Maine Road in the 40's, regularly watched City, absolutely hated United yet they were quite religious, going to Catholic Schools etc... I was christened and sent to Catholic schools too...Yet my Dad and his Parents hated United.

 

[newtownardsblues]

'Any link with Rangers is in the febrile minds of the naive at best, sectarian wannabes at worst.'

Strongbowholic you had better have a word with Eric Alexander, the son of City chairman and grandson of City director, as he claims in his book, that due to the masonic connections at City there were links with Rangers. He obviously must be naive or a sectarian wannabe.

 

[Innsbruckblue]

Interesting comments about Busby and others at Utd trying to promote themselves as the 'Catholic' club along the lines of Celtic. Strangely, Celtic have never had any qualms about having players or managers from whatever background, even if the vast majority of their supporters are from Catholic stock. Indeed, Celtic are, like us, first and foremost, a football club, founded to raise money for the poor Irish in the East End of Glasgow and to give the immigrant population a focus. The club was deliberately formed as a reaction against the treatment of Irish immigrants in everyday life in 19th century Glasgow.
Rangers, however, are on another planet, steadfastly refusing to employ any non-Protestant in any capacity and constantly supporting royalty, the Union, etc. Look at how they treated one of their own players, Ferguson, when he married a Catholic woman.
Celtic promote their Irishness because that is the background of most of their fans. Rangers promote Protestantism and exclusivity, but in a deliberate, manufactured way. To me, this shows more similarities between Rangers and Utd.
We, on the other hand, have more similarities with Celtic as a football club, formed as a focus for a community.
Celtic = Irish club
City = Manchester club
and none of this manufactured b+++shit that other clubs like to try and promote.
and

 

[Anonymous]

'Any link with Rangers is in the febrile minds of the naive at best, sectarian wannabes at worst.'

Strongbowholic you had better have a word with Eric Alexander, the son of City chairman and grandson of City director, as he claims in his book, that due to the masonic connections at City there were links with Rangers. He obviously must be naive or a sectarian wannabe.

Hasn't that already been covered by others? I'm sure I've read that Eric's assertion was based on something he had read and that what he had read has subsequently been found to have no supporting evidence?

 

[Ifwecouldjust.......]

I've been speaking to some relatives who are extremely long term City fans over the Xmas period, and my Dad, my Dad's Dad, my Mum's Dad and my Mum's older brother have all seperately said to me that there used to be a large religious divide between the Manchester Clubs and City were seen as the Protestants whilst United were the Catholics.

Whilst I've always heard this knocked about, does anybody have any idea if there was a real split or if it was one of those urban legends that got around?

This is true...I remember this sort of split in the early 60's