Essentially you are right, but instead of charged, as he already has been, doen't it relate to whether it will go to court and what it is they will take to court and what he may be prosecuted forSt Helens Blue (Exiled) said:mancitymick said:Franny Lee's Barrel Chest said:Yes. Cops don't have the power to decide charges anymore. Has to go to the CPS. Only certain minor offences can be charged without CPS now. This changed a few years back. I think this was because cops were charging people with little or no evidence hoping for a guilty plea because the accused were too scared to plead not guilty as they thought the cops had enough evidence to convict. This obviously led to lots of corrupt cops issuing charges when there was insufficient evidence really and miscarriages of justice.
Surely it only goes to CPS where there is doubt? If a copper is to witness a murder and carries out an arrest surely the suspect can be charged straight away without going to CPS first?
Mick-No,cps and only the cps decide if an offender is going to be charged on the evidence presented to them and if it is in the "public interest" and the likelihood of a conviction.
squirtyflower said:Essentially you are right, but instead of charged, as he already has been, doen't it relate to whether it will go to court and what it is they will take to court and what he may be prosecuted forSt Helens Blue (Exiled) said:mancitymick said:Surely it only goes to CPS where there is doubt? If a copper is to witness a murder and carries out an arrest surely the suspect can be charged straight away without going to CPS first?
Mick-No,cps and only the cps decide if an offender is going to be charged on the evidence presented to them and if it is in the "public interest" and the likelihood of a conviction.
I was agreeing with you above, in your response to mick who has it wrongSt Helens Blue (Exiled) said:squirtyflower said:Essentially you are right, but instead of charged, as he already has been, doen't it relate to whether it will go to court and what it is they will take to court and what he may be prosecuted forSt Helens Blue (Exiled) said:Mick-No,cps and only the cps decide if an offender is going to be charged on the evidence presented to them and if it is in the "public interest" and the likelihood of a conviction.
Squirty...Lets say my Mrs locks up for a section 18 assault (one below murder) a serious serious offence. She will then put what they call an arrest file together and over the course of time all the evidence (witness statements,cctv,medical records) will be collected.Once this has been completed the Officer in the case (depending on the seriousness of the offence-in this example it would normally be cid) will go to the CPS lawyers and discuss the case. At this stage on the evidence presented the cps will decide to either charge with the offence they were arrested for-in this example a sect 18 assault, they could potentially reduce the level of assault to a sect 47 (a lesser offence) because of the evidence presented or refuse to charge as a result of the lack of evidence and the likelihood that they will not be convicted.
Courtney - correct me if I am wrong - has only been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving,therefore he has not been charged with any offence. The old bill will be doing the above and gathering all the evidence to ascertain what has happened and what - if any - offences he has committed. Once they have all the evidence they will then go to the CPS for the above process. Meanwhile Courtney is on bail I believe whilst this happens.
squirtyflower said:I was agreeing with you above, in your response to mick who has it wrongSt Helens Blue (Exiled) said:squirtyflower said:Essentially you are right, but instead of charged, as he already has been, doen't it relate to whether it will go to court and what it is they will take to court and what he may be prosecuted for
Squirty...Lets say my Mrs locks up for a section 18 assault (one below murder) a serious serious offence. She will then put what they call an arrest file together and over the course of time all the evidence (witness statements,cctv,medical records) will be collected.Once this has been completed the Officer in the case (depending on the seriousness of the offence-in this example it would normally be cid) will go to the CPS lawyers and discuss the case. At this stage on the evidence presented the cps will decide to either charge with the offence they were arrested for-in this example a sect 18 assault, they could potentially reduce the level of assault to a sect 47 (a lesser offence) because of the evidence presented or refuse to charge as a result of the lack of evidence and the likelihood that they will not be convicted.
Courtney - correct me if I am wrong - has only been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving,therefore he has not been charged with any offence. The old bill will be doing the above and gathering all the evidence to ascertain what has happened and what - if any - offences he has committed. Once they have all the evidence they will then go to the CPS for the above process. Meanwhile Courtney is on bail I believe whilst this happens.
It's now in the hands of the CPS to decide on the next step and the severity of the prosecution, which is what we are both saying
squirtyflower said:I was agreeing with you above, in your response to mick who has it wrongSt Helens Blue (Exiled) said:squirtyflower said:Essentially you are right, but instead of charged, as he already has been, doen't it relate to whether it will go to court and what it is they will take to court and what he may be prosecuted for
Squirty...Lets say my Mrs locks up for a section 18 assault (one below murder) a serious serious offence. She will then put what they call an arrest file together and over the course of time all the evidence (witness statements,cctv,medical records) will be collected.Once this has been completed the Officer in the case (depending on the seriousness of the offence-in this example it would normally be cid) will go to the CPS lawyers and discuss the case. At this stage on the evidence presented the cps will decide to either charge with the offence they were arrested for-in this example a sect 18 assault, they could potentially reduce the level of assault to a sect 47 (a lesser offence) because of the evidence presented or refuse to charge as a result of the lack of evidence and the likelihood that they will not be convicted.
Courtney - correct me if I am wrong - has only been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving,therefore he has not been charged with any offence. The old bill will be doing the above and gathering all the evidence to ascertain what has happened and what - if any - offences he has committed. Once they have all the evidence they will then go to the CPS for the above process. Meanwhile Courtney is on bail I believe whilst this happens.
It's now in the hands of the CPS to decide on the next step and the severity of the prosecution, which is what we are both saying
You're always wrong, it's not the bloody military you know!mancitymick said:squirtyflower said:I was agreeing with you above, in your response to mick who has it wrongSt Helens Blue (Exiled) said:Squirty...Lets say my Mrs locks up for a section 18 assault (one below murder) a serious serious offence. She will then put what they call an arrest file together and over the course of time all the evidence (witness statements,cctv,medical records) will be collected.Once this has been completed the Officer in the case (depending on the seriousness of the offence-in this example it would normally be cid) will go to the CPS lawyers and discuss the case. At this stage on the evidence presented the cps will decide to either charge with the offence they were arrested for-in this example a sect 18 assault, they could potentially reduce the level of assault to a sect 47 (a lesser offence) because of the evidence presented or refuse to charge as a result of the lack of evidence and the likelihood that they will not be convicted.
Courtney - correct me if I am wrong - has only been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving,therefore he has not been charged with any offence. The old bill will be doing the above and gathering all the evidence to ascertain what has happened and what - if any - offences he has committed. Once they have all the evidence they will then go to the CPS for the above process. Meanwhile Courtney is on bail I believe whilst this happens.
It's now in the hands of the CPS to decide on the next step and the severity of the prosecution, which is what we are both saying
In the wrong? SF. Yes i agree it has to go to CPS but i was replying to every case goes to the CPS, which surely it does not
mancitymick said:squirtyflower said:I was agreeing with you above, in your response to mick who has it wrongSt Helens Blue (Exiled) said:Squirty...Lets say my Mrs locks up for a section 18 assault (one below murder) a serious serious offence. She will then put what they call an arrest file together and over the course of time all the evidence (witness statements,cctv,medical records) will be collected.Once this has been completed the Officer in the case (depending on the seriousness of the offence-in this example it would normally be cid) will go to the CPS lawyers and discuss the case. At this stage on the evidence presented the cps will decide to either charge with the offence they were arrested for-in this example a sect 18 assault, they could potentially reduce the level of assault to a sect 47 (a lesser offence) because of the evidence presented or refuse to charge as a result of the lack of evidence and the likelihood that they will not be convicted.
Courtney - correct me if I am wrong - has only been arrested on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving,therefore he has not been charged with any offence. The old bill will be doing the above and gathering all the evidence to ascertain what has happened and what - if any - offences he has committed. Once they have all the evidence they will then go to the CPS for the above process. Meanwhile Courtney is on bail I believe whilst this happens.
It's now in the hands of the CPS to decide on the next step and the severity of the prosecution, which is what we are both saying
In the wrong? SF. Yes i agree it has to go to CPS but i was replying to every case goes to the CPS, which surely it does not
You're always wrong, it's not the bloody military you know!squirtyflower said:mancitymick said:squirtyflower said:I was agreeing with you above, in your response to mick who has it wrong
It's now in the hands of the CPS to decide on the next step and the severity of the prosecution, which is what we are both saying
In the wrong? SF. Yes i agree it has to go to CPS but i was replying to every case goes to the CPS, which surely it does not
St Helens Blue (Exiled) said:mancitymick said:squirtyflower said:I was agreeing with you above, in your response to mick who has it wrong
It's now in the hands of the CPS to decide on the next step and the severity of the prosecution, which is what we are both saying
In the wrong? SF. Yes i agree it has to go to CPS but i was replying to every case goes to the CPS, which surely it does not
Mick-Yes they do.
Have a read of below. Only the CPS will decide.Not the Custody Sgt,Inspector etc
http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/fact_sheets/decision_to_charge/
Decision to Charge
Who is responsible for deciding to charge a suspect with a crime?
When a crime is reported to the police they are responsible for investigating the crime to find out:
What actually happened
Who was responsible
Evidence
Once the police have completed their investigations, they will refer the case to the Crown Prosecution Service for advice on how to proceed. We will then make a decision on whether a suspect should be charged, and what that charge should be.
What is the difference between the police and The Crown Prosecution Service?
The police:
The police arrest and question, they gather evidence and take witness statements.
The Crown Prosecution Service:
The Crown Prosecution Service is responsible for charging and prosecuting. They decide if the evidence is good enough to go to court and they prosecute the case in a court of law.
How do Crown Prosecutors make the decision to charge a suspect with a crime?
The Crown Prosecutor will read the papers in the file and look at the evidence collected by the police. They then consider whether the case passes the two tests laid down in The Code for Crown Prosecutors.
1.The Evidential Test
The prosecutor must first decide whether or not there is enough evidence against the defendant for them to be convicted of the crime in a court of law.
This means that the magistrates or jury are more likely than not to convict the defendant of the charge. If there is not a realistic prospect of conviction, the case must not go ahead, no matter how important or serious it may be.
It is the duty of every Crown Prosecutor to make sure that the right person is prosecuted for the right offence. In doing so, Crown Prosecutors must always act in the interests of justice and not just to get a conviction.
2. The Public Interest Test
If the prosecutor decides that there is a realistic prospect of conviction, he or she must then consider whether it is in the public interest to prosecute the defendant. Broadly speaking the more serious an alleged offence the more likely it will be that a prosecution is needed in the public interest. However each case is looked at individually.
A prosecution is less likely to be needed if, for example, a court would be likely to fix a minimal or token penalty, or the loss or harm connected with the offence was minor and the result of a single incident.
The interests of the victim are an important factor when considering the public interest. Crown Prosecutors will always take into account the consequences for the victim and any views expressed by the victim or victim's family.
However, The Crown Prosecution Service does not act for victims or the families of victims in the same way as solicitors act for their clients. We act on behalf of the public and not just in the interests of any particular individual.
What happens when you decide to prosecute?
Once the Crown Prosecution Service has decided that a case passes the two tests they will then specify what offence the defendant should be charged with. The defendant will then be charged by the police. In most circumstances they then release the defendant on bail, with a bail sheet that states where and when they should attend court to answer the charge against them. In some cases, such as where the defendant is thought to be dangerous, bail may be refused and the defendant is kept in custody until their first court appearance.
What happens when you decide not to prosecute?
If a Crown Prosecutor decides that a prosecution should not go ahead, the case will be stopped, usually by what is called 'discontinuance'. Unless there are special circumstances which mean that it is not appropriate to do so, the victim will be told the reasons for the decision to stop the case.
Often the hardest decision can be to conclude that there isn't enough of a case to go to court, even where the public favour a prosecution.
The decisions made by the CPS are based on publicly available, clear and visible legal guidance.
mancitymick said:Every day is a school day then
-- Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:07 pm --
You're always wrong, it's not the bloody military you know!squirtyflower said:mancitymick said:In the wrong? SF. Yes i agree it has to go to CPS but i was replying to every case goes to the CPS, which surely it does not
Yer can't just drag 'em off and have them shot or thrown over the side[/quote
Ha Ha, However "Thrown off the side" it was called a No's 1. Hung from the Yardarm :)
-- Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:09 pm --
St Helens Blue (Exiled) said:mancitymick said:In the wrong? SF. Yes i agree it has to go to CPS but i was replying to every case goes to the CPS, which surely it does not
Mick-Yes they do.
Have a read of below. Only the CPS will decide.Not the Custody Sgt,Inspector etc
http://www.cps.gov.uk/news/fact_sheets/decision_to_charge/
Decision to Charge
Who is responsible for deciding to charge a suspect with a crime?
When a crime is reported to the police they are responsible for investigating the crime to find out:
What actually happened
Who was responsible
Evidence
Once the police have completed their investigations, they will refer the case to the Crown Prosecution Service for advice on how to proceed. We will then make a decision on whether a suspect should be charged, and what that charge should be.
What is the difference between the police and The Crown Prosecution Service?
The police:
The police arrest and question, they gather evidence and take witness statements.
The Crown Prosecution Service:
The Crown Prosecution Service is responsible for charging and prosecuting. They decide if the evidence is good enough to go to court and they prosecute the case in a court of law.
How do Crown Prosecutors make the decision to charge a suspect with a crime?
The Crown Prosecutor will read the papers in the file and look at the evidence collected by the police. They then consider whether the case passes the two tests laid down in The Code for Crown Prosecutors.
1.The Evidential Test
The prosecutor must first decide whether or not there is enough evidence against the defendant for them to be convicted of the crime in a court of law.
This means that the magistrates or jury are more likely than not to convict the defendant of the charge. If there is not a realistic prospect of conviction, the case must not go ahead, no matter how important or serious it may be.
It is the duty of every Crown Prosecutor to make sure that the right person is prosecuted for the right offence. In doing so, Crown Prosecutors must always act in the interests of justice and not just to get a conviction.
2. The Public Interest Test
If the prosecutor decides that there is a realistic prospect of conviction, he or she must then consider whether it is in the public interest to prosecute the defendant. Broadly speaking the more serious an alleged offence the more likely it will be that a prosecution is needed in the public interest. However each case is looked at individually.
A prosecution is less likely to be needed if, for example, a court would be likely to fix a minimal or token penalty, or the loss or harm connected with the offence was minor and the result of a single incident.
The interests of the victim are an important factor when considering the public interest. Crown Prosecutors will always take into account the consequences for the victim and any views expressed by the victim or victim's family.
However, The Crown Prosecution Service does not act for victims or the families of victims in the same way as solicitors act for their clients. We act on behalf of the public and not just in the interests of any particular individual.
What happens when you decide to prosecute?
Once the Crown Prosecution Service has decided that a case passes the two tests they will then specify what offence the defendant should be charged with. The defendant will then be charged by the police. In most circumstances they then release the defendant on bail, with a bail sheet that states where and when they should attend court to answer the charge against them. In some cases, such as where the defendant is thought to be dangerous, bail may be refused and the defendant is kept in custody until their first court appearance.
What happens when you decide not to prosecute?
If a Crown Prosecutor decides that a prosecution should not go ahead, the case will be stopped, usually by what is called 'discontinuance'. Unless there are special circumstances which mean that it is not appropriate to do so, the victim will be told the reasons for the decision to stop the case.
Often the hardest decision can be to conclude that there isn't enough of a case to go to court, even where the public favour a prosecution.
The decisions made by the CPS are based on publicly available, clear and visible legal guidance.
Thanks for that. Shame you did not read that before making accusations a few months back :)