Dani Alves

[robbieh]

At the current moment in time it is fair to say that Alves is a better RB than Bellerin, Walker, the bloke at United, and Clyne. These are players I have seen.

There may be better out there than those just mentioned. Semedo, Aurier etc.

So at 5 million Dani looks worth a flutter.

 

[domalino]

The negatives are most likely. 1) He is on a downward curve and this decline could turn out to be rapid. 2) He may take time to adapt to EPL time he does not have
3) Should he replace the purchase of a very good young full back we may find ourselves losing out in the long run. 4) Related to point 3 we will be back in the market sooner rather than later as he is unlikely to have more than 2 years at most left at the top. 5) Historically many of us can still remember Maicon and while not directly comparable there are similarities.
Now while I am still undecided about this potential deal there are certainly reasons why this may not be a good thing.

Is he on a downward curve? He's just dominated the CL semi-finals and done well in the final despite being on the losing side and having to play 3 positions in the match. Even if he was, his value off the pitch or on the training ground is likely to be worth the fee, he's the quintessential Guardiola fullback and as well versed in the way Pep plays as any player out there. The other players will learn off him, and as one of the most decorated players in history, his familiarity with winning the CL 3 times, trebles twice, and 7 league titles will come in handy in a young squad.

Why doesn't he have time to adapt to the Premier League, when Walker will simply play ahead of him if he's not up to it? I doubt he'll struggle to adapt personally considering he played the kind of football we're trying to play for 8 years at Barcelona, it's much more likely he fits like a glove, but if he doesn't? Walker.

Why would he replace the signing of a young fullback? It's not like Guardiola to buy an apple when he needs an orange. If he wanted a really long term option (ie more long term than 26 year old Walker) he'd get one, most likely he wants a back up who's still good enough to play the biggest games, plus is very acquainted with Pep's methods and could even teach the others a thing or two.

We will be back in the market sooner, but as related to (3) it's probably not a question of Alves over a young player, it's probably Alves or no one, and it's a bloody hard job to get 4 fullbacks in one window, getting 4 long term fullbacks who are immediately up to our level is IMO, impossible.

5 is just lazy IMO. Maicon and Alves were the polar opposite kind of fullback. Expecting 1 to be the other is like expecting any Argentinian #10 to be Messi.


I can see why a few people are cautious, I just think all of their worries are immediately sovled with 2 simple things. 1 - Walker, 2- £5m for one of the 2 best RB's in the Champions League last season.

Anyway, Personally, only Ederson and Sanchez would excite me as much as signing Alves, I desperately hope it happens, even if he's only half as good as he was last season.

 

[rollingnakedinmoney]

Oh, so now you've dropped the imaginary bollocks about them not missing players for the Atletico tie? Thought as much.

They're not missing players, just missing Robben shouldn't be an excuse when you have a 25-man squad full of many world class players as they claim their team has. And in the first game if they're missing Boateng they have someone else. If they're missing Robben they have Costa. It's Bayern's responsibility to take care of that. I gave you the example, Real Madrid were missing Bale and some other player, but they still scored 4 goals on that return leg. Bayern fans cried about Lewandowski missing in the first leg, it's their club's and their manager's responsibility to make sure they have a plan B when their main man isn't performing.

That's the difference between Real Madrid and other teams. Other teams cry with excuses that they didn't have this player or that happened.

Do you wanna cry? Whose responsibility is that when comes a game where Dani Alves isn't enough? or Aguero is injured? Whose responsibility is it if we start the season with current set of defenders and Kompany gets another long term injury and we get knocked out by Bayern or Real in his absence?

Whose responsibility will it be? Will you cry then and say "but Kompany was injured"? Pepe was sitting on Real's bench in the final. Pepe.

I just dropped this because Sam Lee said Pep wants to look out for Mbappe's situation and he might start the season with the current set of defenders if need be.

Ok? I don't give a shit if Bayern were missing Robben and Ribery, they're not some midtable club, they claim themselves to be a top 3 my arse club so they should've been ready for a situation where Robben and Ribery might be missing in their most important game of the season. Real Madrid were prepared, Bayern weren't. Which one do you wanna be?

Squad planning is part of manager's responsibility.

I love seeing differing opinions to mine, I like reading all the different views that can come from a hundred people watching the same match, I enjoy reading comments which disagree with my own.

You're such a lovebug.

Anyway, I'm sure we'll all be thrilled by the end of the transfer window, it's just some of us will look back on their own hysteria over the order in which players were signed and be a bit embarrassed.

What am I supposed to do as a fan? Fax my concerns to the club? I'm writing here, this is why we have these forums so we can talk about 'em.

I'd rather be embarrased in the end.

 

[domalino]

They're not missing players, just missing Robben shouldn't be an excuse when you have a 25-man squad full of many world class players as they claim their team has. And in the first game if they're missing Boateng they have someone else. If they're missing Robben they have Costa. It's Bayern's responsibility to take care of that. I gave you the example, Real Madrid were missing Bale and some other player, but they still scored 4 goals on that return leg. Bayern fans cried about Lewandowski missing in the first leg, it's their club's and their manager's responsibility to make sure they have a plan B when their main man isn't performing.

That's the difference between Real Madrid and other teams. Other teams cry with excuses that they didn't have this player or that happened.

Do you wanna cry? Whose responsibility is that when comes a game where Dani Alves isn't enough? or Aguero is injured? Whose responsibility is it if we start the season with current set of defenders and Kompany gets another long term injury and we get knocked out by Bayern or Real in his absence?

Whose responsibility will it be? Will you cry then and say "but Kompany was injured"? Pepe was sitting on Real's bench in the final. Pepe.

I just dropped this because Sam Lee said Pep wants to look out for Mbappe's situation and he might start the season with the current set of defenders if need be.

Ok? I don't give a shit if Bayern were missing Robben and Ribery, they're not some midtable club, they claim themselves to be a top 3 my arse club so they should've been ready for a situation where Robben and Ribery might be missing in their most important game of the season. Real Madrid were prepared, Bayern weren't. Which one do you wanna be?

Squad planning is part of manager's responsibility.



You're such a lovebug.



What am I supposed to do as a fan? Fax my concerns to the club? I'm writing here, this is why we have these forums so we can talk about 'em.

I'd rather be embarrased in the end.

I see you've graduated from throwing a hissy fit to full on mental breakdown. Keep up the good work.

Nearly everything in this post is factually incorrect and has been delivered in the tone of someone who's escaped the asylum.

You said there were no injury problems for the Atletico-Bayern match - now there were injuries but that doesn't matter. Apart from contradicting yourself it's also ridiculous to pretend like missing 3 of your best players isn't a handicap...

No one ever said Dani Alves on his own was enough...

If Aguero's injured? Jesus will play, or Sanchez...

Begiristain would be responsible if none of the players we want come to City, Pep's job is to tell him who he wants, Begiristain buys them...

Guardiola wasn't in control of Bayerns' squad that's one of the reason's he left...

Sam Lee never said that Pep would start the new season with the current defenders...



I've seen some weird posts on here before, but none that make me think I'm replying to someone who's genuinely unwell.

 

[BlueDeadHead]

okay, it suggests nothing either. That's something you've thought up in your own mind. Maybe Pep does think Maffeo is the future, maybe he doesn't, who knows, but there's no way it would be of any consideration to him when he's looking at bringing in a new right back. Alves is the best right back in the world that's all that would be on his mind.

And thats not something that you have thought up in your own mind. Get back to me when you look up the definition of "suggests".

 

[Rammyblues]

The negatives are most likely. 1) He is on a downward curve and this decline could turn out to be rapid. 2) He may take time to adapt to EPL time he does not have
3) Should he replace the purchase of a very good young full back we may find ourselves losing out in the long run. 4) Related to point 3 we will be back in the market sooner rather than later as he is unlikely to have more than 2 years at most left at the top. 5) Historically many of us can still remember Maicon and while not directly comparable there are similarities.
Now while I am still undecided about this potential deal there are certainly reasons why this may not be a good thing.

You could be right on all your points but in the current market of players going for 40m if the asking price is only 5m is it not worth taking the risk for one or two seasons?

 

[Father Paul]

Is he on a downward curve? He's just dominated the CL semi-finals and done well in the final despite being on the losing side and having to play 3 positions in the match. Even if he was, his value off the pitch or on the training ground is likely to be worth the fee, he's the quintessential Guardiola fullback and as well versed in the way Pep plays as any player out there. The other players will learn off him, and as one of the most decorated players in history, his familiarity with winning the CL 3 times, trebles twice, and 7 league titles will come in handy in a young squad.

Why doesn't he have time to adapt to the Premier League, when Walker will simply play ahead of him if he's not up to it? I doubt he'll struggle to adapt personally considering he played the kind of football we're trying to play for 8 years at Barcelona, it's much more likely he fits like a glove, but if he doesn't? Walker.

Why would he replace the signing of a young fullback? It's not like Guardiola to buy an apple when he needs an orange. If he wanted a really long term option (ie more long term than 26 year old Walker) he'd get one, most likely he wants a back up who's still good enough to play the biggest games, plus is very acquainted with Pep's methods and could even teach the others a thing or two.

We will be back in the market sooner, but as related to (3) it's probably not a question of Alves over a young player, it's probably Alves or no one, and it's a bloody hard job to get 4 fullbacks in one window, getting 4 long term fullbacks who are immediately up to our level is IMO, impossible.

5 is just lazy IMO. Maicon and Alves were the polar opposite kind of fullback. Expecting 1 to be the other is like expecting any Argentinian #10 to be Messi.


I can see why a few people are cautious, I just think all of their worries are immediately sovled with 2 simple things. 1 - Walker, 2- £5m for one of the 2 best RB's in the Champions League last season.

Anyway, Personally, only Ederson and Sanchez would excite me as much as signing Alves, I desperately hope it happens, even if he's only half as good as he was last season.

I was just pointing out a list of possible negatives to somebody who seemed to think there are none.
I stand over the fact that he is on a downward curve because of his age. Football history is full of examples of players who perform to a very high level when they reach their mid 30's and this may well be true in this case. However, the flip side is that the end can come very quickly see how our 3 full back fell away this season so age has to be a factor.

My point about missing out on the youth option is that there seems to be some good young full backs around at the moment and that might not be the case in 1-2 years again it is not in itself a reason to forget about Alves but it could be a negative side effect. I fully agree that if he is bought in conjunction with another fullback you mention Walker that this may well work out well if his legs hold out. You also correctly point out that the financial outlay will be relatively insignificant.

Finally, I don't know the guy obviously Pep does and as you suggest he may be a positive influence in the dressing room on younger players, inspire more established players and his talent and experience cannot be questioned.

 

[City_Sean]

You could be right on all your points but in the current market of players going for 40m if the asking price is only 5m is it not worth taking the risk for one or two seasons?

It's not even a risk. The level Alves performed at last season was as good as peak Zaba. It's no risk.

 

[domalino]

I was just pointing out a list of possible negatives to somebody who seemed to think there are none.
I stand over the fact that he is on a downward curve because of his age. Football history is full of examples of players who perform to a very high level when they reach their mid 30's and this may well be true in this case. However, the flip side is that the end can come very quickly see how our 3 full back fell away this season so age has to be a factor.

My point about missing out on the youth option is that there seems to be some good young full backs around at the moment and that might not be the case in 1-2 years again it is not in itself a reason to forget about Alves but it could be a negative side effect. I fully agree that if he is bought in conjunction with another fullback you mention Walker that this may well work out well if his legs hold out. You also correctly point out that the financial outlay will be relatively insignificant.

Finally, I don't know the guy obviously Pep does and as you suggest he may be a positive influence in the dressing room on younger players, inspire more established players and his talent and experience cannot be questioned.

I know, I was just addressing the negatives because I don't think any of the negatives people bring up are actually reasons to not sign him, most are just conjecture based on him being 34 and ignoring everything else.

 

[rollingnakedinmoney]

I see you've graduated from throwing a hissy fit to full on mental breakdown. Keep up the good work.

Nearly everything in this post is factually incorrect and has been delivered in the tone of someone who's escaped the asylum.

You said there were no injury problems for the Atletico-Bayern match - now there were injuries but that doesn't matter. Apart from contradicting yourself it's also ridiculous to pretend like missing 3 of your best players isn't a handicap...

Again, Bayern Munich.

There were no injury problems for the return leg I said, forgetting about Robben, everybody else you mentioned was there. And they didn't lose that tie because they missed Boateng in the first leg, they lost it because their collective defending sucked,especially on the counterattacks, just like it still sucks today, with or without Boateng. Boateng and Benatia was turned inside out by Aguero when we played them, and again Boateng was literally raped by Messi and Ronaldo in various other ties in their set up.

They got knocked out by Atletico because they literally couldn't contain their counterattacks, a problem they still have as they lost to Atletico earlier in the season the same way and they got literally raped by Real Madrid, again.

And Robben was all they needed to get past Atletico, too bad. It's their problem if their other wingers were up to no good. See: squad planning.

No one ever said Dani Alves on his own was enough...

Begiristain would be responsible if none of the players we want come to City, Pep's job is to tell him who he wants, Begiristain buys them...

Then Begiristain is who I'm addressing here. I'm not writing under Pep Guardiola thread, I'm writing under Dani Alves thread. I originally said "I'm not against Dani Alves, I welcome someone like him in the team, he'll be a very valuable addition if he's brought in for rotation and for his experience but Pep should finish the signing of priority fullbacks for both flanks this week before they go to other teams. Since yesterday I'm reading that Chelsea are all over Sandro and are ready to pay big money. We should be working on Sandro and players like Sandro instead", I also said Dani Alves isn't what you're exaggerating him up to and he won't be enough as our first choice fullback because he's old and he's declining and will continue to decline, it's inevitable, yet you threw pages of fit yourself and now you say "no one ever said Dani Alves on his own was enough".

Guardiola wasn't in control of Bayerns' squad that's one of the reason's he left...

But he's in control with ours, or Txiki. I was addressing a concern about our first choice FB targets and lack of defenders. Txiki, Pep, they're the ones taking care of it.

Sam Lee never said that Pep would start the new season with the current defenders...

Sam Lee said just what Tolmie said in the other thread, which is "One of the main reasons we had only a watching brief interest on Van Dijk/another central defender is because the club feels they might need the budget for Mbappe if we do get the nod."

(I quoted Tolmie here but what Sam Lee said was the same thing), so I made a comment about the fullback situation, just like I previously expressed a concern about defender situation, but instead of responding and discussing like a normal human being with good manners and adequate intelligence quotient, you rather began fighting back like your life depends on it calling me names, which you usually do, just like you're defending it in the other thread when other people express similar concerns. Y'know, because we're fans, and some of us may have different opinions and we post it in the forum to discuss between ourselves.

But when I suggest you should start a blog so that you can be the sole writer and everybody else can just read and not respond, you write me pages and pages about how much you love discussing with people who have different views. And then you call me:

I've seen some weird posts on here before, but none that make me think I'm replying to someone who's genuinely unwell.

I'm genuinely unwell pal, I'm breaking out in hives here.