Discuss Pellegrini...(cont)

[Bill]

We've lost the fear factor, nobody is scared of us anymore. Was a good weapon that.

 

[mancity1]

We've lost the fear factor, nobody is scared of us anymore. Was a good weapon that.

Some truth to that but the same is true for any side at anytime.

I was happy the way we started the game and scored twice in the first ten minutes despite them having a quick reply to the second and an offside decision that could have gone either way in response to our first.

Even without Silva , Navas , Nasty and a suspect Yaya , Kompany and Zabba we should be able to end Pullis's run fear factor or bot.

 

[gio's side step]

Very difficult to assess this season in any clear defined way.

In one sense Pellegrini has had a good first season. Won a trophy. Had more cutting edge which we lacked last season. Got through to the CL knock out stages. And are on course (unless we fuck it up) to finish at least 2nd again with an improved points total in a strange season which as far as Im concerned re: Liverpool who will very likely win it, is a bit of an anomaly within the bigger picture of how things have been developing over the last 4 years. Add to that, our dreadful injury record (even with a squad our size - missing the spine of our team at many points over the season has really hurt us and would have killed off anyone else), and Liverpools unprecedented momentum for a team who previously finished outside of the top 5, it has been reasonably successful.

In another sense, one cannot escape the feeling of regret, failure and regression since we won the title two years ago, which is absolutely not Pellegrini's fault but a smell of it still lingers in terms of mentality. We have not dominated the PL like many of us thought we would. That is not being arrogant. And does not mean everyone expected us to win it 3, 4, 5, 6 times on the bounce. But to have finished quite a few points behind Utd last season and to have never really put a marker down this season or been top for long enough even with injuries is difficult to accept. I thought we would win it at least twice in 3 years and kick on. I accept we haven't 'lost it yet' but deep down we know we have. The two goals this season would have been to have won the title and secured CL knock out qualification. A major trophy is great and something we as fans would never play down having not won anything for decades, but the reality is we are here now. Competing. In a season which saw Utd post-Fergie, Chelsea struggle to score goals, Arsenal all but closing the chapter on Wenger, we are theoretically in danger of standing still. And the reality of FFP lingering. Utd will bounce back and sign one or two big players. Mourinho will improve Chelsea for next season. And Liverpool's stand alone season of momentum will reinvigerate a club which is so hungry for success again. I think next season is going to be harder still post the World Cup. I think we really needed to win the title this year. Just my personal point of view.

 

[Dribble]

We don't really have the personnel to switch to other formations.

Okay we use 4-2-3-1 sometimes but for me it's the same as 4-2-2-2, there's no significant difference.

Yeah it would be nice if Pellegrini gets more players in the transfer market so we can use different formations throughout the season, but at the moment we can't deviate from 4-2-2-2/4-2-3-1.

It was interesting to see Bayern Munich get out played today, in the dying minutes they changed to a more direct 4-2-2-2 in an attempt to get something out of the game. That tiki taka business is clearly dying. It's is too easy to play against and I hope we never sign Guardiola.

I get what you're saying, but until this season we've played 4-2-3-1 previously so I don't think adopting it as a formation away from home or for the more difficult matches would pose a problem.

My main gripe is us playing with 2 midfielders (especially with Yaya as one of them) and relying on our superior talent to overcome the opposition when we can bet a pound to a dollar most teams will just swamp the midfield and hit us on the counter as they have been doing. My preferred formation would be a 4-1-2-3 which I think is perfect for the players we have.

I don't think we need more than one specialist defensive midfielder and as long as we have a box to box player and a playmaker in front of that DM I think we'd be absolutely solid defensively, not overrun in midfield and have enough advanced players when attacking to support a single out and out striker.

I agree with the many posters who have said that they like us to control matches and this season even though we've smashed many teams, we don't seem to control matches like we used to and we always seem vulnerable to conceding at any time. It makes for a more thrilling game but doesn't do the old ticker any good.

I love the tiki-taka style, but I think that sometimes Pep has taken it too far. I always believe a team will always be better to mix their strategy so they don't become predictable as can happen to any style of football. I would love Pep to come here in the future, but I would also like to see him evolve his tiki-taka style and combine it with a more direct approach when appropriate.

In his final year at Barca I think Pep went too far with it and virtually ended up with a team of world class creative midget midfielders and no specialist forward and only 2 proper specialist defenders. It all became too predictable and when Maureen showed the world the way to defeat Pep's style of play, the days of absolute tiki-taka dominance was over. That isn't to say I think its dead, I just think it needs to evolve to counter the Maureen's of this world.

You're absolutely right, we don't dominate games anymore, that's because under Pellegrini we've become a direct team. Our formation doesn't allow us to dominate, it's a formation designed to play what they call samba football. It's skillful, creative, fast paced and exciting football. But we cant control games in the way Barcelona or Bayern do because we're light in central midfield.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnoz4NuYMU8&feature=youtu.be[/youtube]

The problem with your favorite 4-1-2-3 (or simply 4-3-3) is that you need pacy or creative wingers that can score goals .. but we don't have them. I don't see Navas as a winger, for me he's a wide midfielder. Jovetic can probably play as a winger but where would Aguero play? Aguero never thrived as a lone striker. To get the best out of Aguero, we must stick with two strikers up front. I haven't seen us using a 4-4-2 diamond yet, It could be an alternative to 4-2-2-2 .

zab-komp-demi-kola

----------garcia---------

--------ferna--toure---

-------------silva---------

---------jovetic-aguero

I think the issue you'd have with the above formation would be the lack of width, but with a little shuffling around, it wouldn't be too far off my preference. I get what you're saying about Aguero too, but I think if we attacked and defended as a unit he wouldn't become isolated and would have more than enough support around him.

I love Samba football and if I were FIFA, I'd make it compulsory! :-) BUT the game is all about winning and alas there are no rules as to what style of play you have to adopt to do this eg: Wimbledon/ManUre :-) or like Maureen or Mancini in his first full season at City. The style of play is just a means to an end and unfortunately the end matters more than the means of getting there in today's money driven football environment.

Again I agree with you about us having a dearth of pacy goals scoring wingers/wide attackers and yes I agree Jovetic could possibly be the answer on the left as he's played there before for my favourite Italian club Fiorentina. But don't you think he'd be better suited to a No 10 role in a 4-4-2 or as a deep lying striker in a 4-2-3-1? I think Jovetic can be a revelation for us if he can get his fitness right and he offers us endless formation possibilities too.

4-3-3 / 4-1-2-3 / 4-1-4-1

Zabaleta--------------Kompany-----------MDM------------------Clichy

-------------------------------------Fernandinho------------------------------

---------------------Yaya-------------------------------Silva--------------------

Nasri-----------------------------Aguero-----------------------------Jovetic

Considering we have Navas, Milner, Negredo, Garcia there too, the possibilities would be endless.

4-2-1-3 / 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-2

Zabaleta--------------Kompany-----------MDM----------------Kolorov

-------------------Yaya---------------------------Fernandinho--------------

------------------------------------Jovetic---------------------------------------

Navas---------------------------Negredo---------------------------Milner

That's the thing with formations is as the match progresses they evolve and with the above formation, if Jovetic goes alongside Negredo, it's a 4-4-2. The important thing for me though is what we do when defending. If Jovetic drops deep, we don't get swamped in the midfield, if he stays up front we are light in midfield if the opposition play 3 in there albeit we are stronger up front IF the ball breaks for us. I suppose it's about personal preference and I'd always opt for being stronger in midfield and for the midfield to support the attack or defence when needed.

 

[mike channon´s windmill]

Very difficult to assess this season in any clear defined way.

In one sense Pellegrini has had a good first season. Won a trophy. Had more cutting edge which we lacked last season. Got through to the CL knock out stages. And are on course (unless we fuck it up) to finish at least 2nd again with an improved points total in a strange season which as far as Im concerned re: Liverpool who will very likely win it, is a bit of an anomaly within the bigger picture of how things have been developing over the last 4 years. Add to that, our dreadful injury record (even with a squad our size - missing the spine of our team at many points over the season has really hurt us and would have killed off anyone else), and Liverpools unprecedented momentum for a team who previously finished outside of the top 5, it has been reasonably successful.

In another sense, one cannot escape the feeling of regret, failure and regression since we won the title two years ago, which is absolutely not Pellegrini's fault but a smell of it still lingers in terms of mentality. We have not dominated the PL like many of us thought we would. That is not being arrogant. And does not mean everyone expected us to win it 3, 4, 5, 6 times on the bounce. But to have finished quite a few points behind Utd last season and to have never really put a marker down this season or been top for long enough even with injuries is difficult to accept. I thought we would win it at least twice in 3 years and kick on. I accept we haven't 'lost it yet' but deep down we know we have. The two goals this season would have been to have won the title and secured CL knock out qualification. A major trophy is great and something we as fans would never play down having not won anything for decades, but the reality is we are here now. Competing. In a season which saw Utd post-Fergie, Chelsea struggle to score goals, Arsenal all but closing the chapter on Wenger, we are theoretically in danger of standing still. And the reality of FFP lingering. Utd will bounce back and sign one or two big players. Mourinho will improve Chelsea for next season. And Liverpool's stand alone season of momentum will reinvigerate a club which is so hungry for success again. I think next season is going to be harder still post the World Cup. I think we really needed to win the title this year. Just my personal point of view.

excellent post and summarises my feelings exactly

well done

Ditto - spot on and you have saved this lazy barsteward the job of articulating his sentiments in such a constructive and eloquent fashion ! ;)

 

[mancity1]

Very difficult to assess this season in any clear defined way.

In one sense Pellegrini has had a good first season. Won a trophy. Had more cutting edge which we lacked last season. Got through to the CL knock out stages. And are on course (unless we fuck it up) to finish at least 2nd again with an improved points total in a strange season which as far as Im concerned re: Liverpool who will very likely win it, is a bit of an anomaly within the bigger picture of how things have been developing over the last 4 years. Add to that, our dreadful injury record (even with a squad our size - missing the spine of our team at many points over the season has really hurt us and would have killed off anyone else), and Liverpools unprecedented momentum for a team who previously finished outside of the top 5, it has been reasonably successful.

In another sense, one cannot escape the feeling of regret, failure and regression since we won the title two years ago, which is absolutely not Pellegrini's fault but a smell of it still lingers in terms of mentality. We have not dominated the PL like many of us thought we would. That is not being arrogant. And does not mean everyone expected us to win it 3, 4, 5, 6 times on the bounce. But to have finished quite a few points behind Utd last season and to have never really put a marker down this season or been top for long enough even with injuries is difficult to accept. I thought we would win it at least twice in 3 years and kick on. I accept we haven't 'lost it yet' but deep down we know we have. The two goals this season would have been to have won the title and secured CL knock out qualification. A major trophy is great and something we as fans would never play down having not won anything for decades, but the reality is we are here now. Competing. In a season which saw Utd post-Fergie, Chelsea struggle to score goals, Arsenal all but closing the chapter on Wenger, we are theoretically in danger of standing still. And the reality of FFP lingering. Utd will bounce back and sign one or two big players. Mourinho will improve Chelsea for next season. And Liverpool's stand alone season of momentum will reinvigerate a club which is so hungry for success again. I think next season is going to be harder still post the World Cup. I think we really needed to win the title this year. Just my personal point of view.

excellent post and summarises my feelings exactly

well done

Ditto - spot on and you have saved this lazy barsteward the job of articulating his sentiments in such a constructive and eloquent fashion ! ;)

I would only add that things have fallen nicely into place for Liverpool , even the loss of Cech and Terry in the week leading up to Sunday.

Its no excuse for us not being where expected us yo be ie in first place with a firm grip on the title after 34 games but sometimes you have to take it as being a given that the football gods will smile on others.


Our early poor start away from home made things difficult for us and in reality we have done well from then on.

Who knows what will happen next year but I think we will be competitive again and that's the main thing.

 

[eversince 76]

Very difficult to assess this season in any clear defined way.

In one sense Pellegrini has had a good first season. Won a trophy. Had more cutting edge which we lacked last season. Got through to the CL knock out stages. And are on course (unless we fuck it up) to finish at least 2nd again with an improved points total in a strange season which as far as Im concerned re: Liverpool who will very likely win it, is a bit of an anomaly within the bigger picture of how things have been developing over the last 4 years. Add to that, our dreadful injury record (even with a squad our size - missing the spine of our team at many points over the season has really hurt us and would have killed off anyone else), and Liverpools unprecedented momentum for a team who previously finished outside of the top 5, it has been reasonably successful.

In another sense, one cannot escape the feeling of regret, failure and regression since we won the title two years ago, which is absolutely not Pellegrini's fault but a smell of it still lingers in terms of mentality. We have not dominated the PL like many of us thought we would. That is not being arrogant. And does not mean everyone expected us to win it 3, 4, 5, 6 times on the bounce. But to have finished quite a few points behind Utd last season and to have never really put a marker down this season or been top for long enough even with injuries is difficult to accept. I thought we would win it at least twice in 3 years and kick on. I accept we haven't 'lost it yet' but deep down we know we have. The two goals this season would have been to have won the title and secured CL knock out qualification. A major trophy is great and something we as fans would never play down having not won anything for decades, but the reality is we are here now. Competing. In a season which saw Utd post-Fergie, Chelsea struggle to score goals, Arsenal all but closing the chapter on Wenger, we are theoretically in danger of standing still. And the reality of FFP lingering. Utd will bounce back and sign one or two big players. Mourinho will improve Chelsea for next season. And Liverpool's stand alone season of momentum will reinvigerate a club which is so hungry for success again. I think next season is going to be harder still post the World Cup. I think we really needed to win the title this year. Just my personal point of view.

excellent post and summarises my feelings exactly

well done

Indeed excellent post, but it didn't summarises my feelings though.
A lot of people seem to forget it has been a season of transition for us more than anyone else. Wasn't the preseason talk all about how we, United, and Chelsea changed managers and that it might be Arsenal to win it because of that? And we brought in someone who never managed in the PL before, including the introduction of a different style of play. A style of play copied by the teams we have in our academy and that will be our benchmark for years to come. We are not in danger of standing still just because we have been unable to build on winning the PL 2 years ago. In fact I think this season the club (not just the 1st team) has grown immensely. Again. If I compare our situation to the one we were in two years ago (when we won the title) I think we are in a much better position. That does not mean we will win the PL automatically, especially because this is the PL, not the Spanish or German or French league to name the ones that are already decided before they begin. We broke the old top 4 forever, and instead of making the Pl far more interesting, we were blamed for ruining football. As being the first team with Arab-money we had to overcome the envy of many people worldwide, making other teams play us as it is their cupfinal. By behaving and acting in a very decent way (sometimes too decent for my likening) we have moved foreward in a more graduade way than for exemple PSG. The Quatar-owner took the easy way, our owner took the hardest way. Next season will be harder and I hope the ones after that as well. It's what makes this league so special and it's what makes it totally wrong to expect us to win the PL on a regular basis. We won't and nobody will. I just want us to be up there until the very end and so far this year I think we have. In fact we are still in it, although I think we won't win it because it has been destined for Liverpool to win it. We won the League Cup and should have been in the FA semis. We progressed in the CL as well and were unlucky to play Barcelona at the time we did. No, we definitely didn't stand still.

 

[paulchapo]

We've lost the fear factor, nobody is scared of us anymore. Was a good weapon that.

I agree to a point,this is mainly due to injuries to our forwards and the goals drying up to the extent they were flying in earlier in the season.In contrast that fear factor has shifted over to Liverpool with their SAS strikeforce blitzing all before them.

In fact Liverpool's philosophy is the same as ours and Pellegrini's.Go on all out attack from the off and try and get the game won in the first twenty minutes,with pace and power at a time most teams are feeling their way into a game.

What has irked me about Pellegrini this season is sticking to this plan at all costs,no matter what the personnel available to him or the opposition in front of him.Football is about more than just going gung ho hoping you will outgun your opponnents,Keegan style,you have to be cuter than that to win games,especially the big games,a fact Pellegrini hasn't or won't recognise.

We all know if we have our first choice fully fit first eleven out there we will beat most teams playing this way.The big problem is when we don't have that option available to us we continue to go down that path and with players not up to the first choice quality we come unstuck.

His tactical naviety at times is suprising,the Liverpool game being the biggest one.We knew how they would play,it is no suprise but instead of countering that he played straight into their hands with his formation.If he had started with Millner and Garcia to stifle them early doors they would have become frustrated and blown themselves out.During that period we may have also hit them on the break.It was a game we needed not to lose rather than win,but lose it we did.We were lucky not to be four or five down in that opening twenty five minutes.

Yes we came back well and individual errors lost us the game,but with a bit more tactical nouse we could have at least drawn and maybe won it.

What i hope he takes into next season is that he can still attack teams and have flair but it must be balanced with some players who do the dirty work and allow the flair players to flourish.Also some games are better not to lose rather than going gung ho for the win.

 

[gio's side step]

excellent post and summarises my feelings exactly

well done

Ditto - spot on and you have saved this lazy barsteward the job of articulating his sentiments in such a constructive and eloquent fashion ! ;)

I would only add that things have fallen nicely into place for Liverpool , even the loss of Cech and Terry in the week leading up to Sunday.

Its no excuse for us not being where expected us yo be ie in first place with a firm grip on the title after 34 games but sometimes you have to take it as being a given that the football gods will smile on others.


Our early poor start away from home made things difficult for us and in reality we have done well from then on.

Who knows what will happen next year but I think we will be competitive again and that's the main thing.

No doubt as long as Kompany, Toure, Silva, Aguero remain our spine AND FIT we will be absolutely competitive again no matter what the others do in the market. But I fear we have missed an opportunity since 2012 to kick on and really dominate this league for a couple of years. The inability to be at the top of the table this season for hardly any amount of time whatsoever has given others (especially Liverpool) real belief that its a wide open season. And it shouldnt be. They came off the back of an impressive end to the season when signing Coutinho last January and have sort of fluked their formation in the run in (I say that loosely but the Gerrard deep playing quarter back position was not a tactical masterstroke it was forced when he missed the Spurs away game and Rodgers realised Henderson was better at pressing in midfield - ala what Gerrard used to do).

But they have merely seized the initiative after we have flirted for too many games. Like going out on a few dates with a fit girl wining and dining, buying flowers, driving her home, peck on the cheek and then another hungry bastard takes advantage and gets straight to the point and seals the deal. If you listen to everything Rodgers has said (regardless of Dr Steve Peters working with them) I genuinely feel he has been humble and accurate. Has regularly stated City should win the league with the talented squad we have and that they are ahead of schedule. A combination of us not dominating the title race mentally (our defeat to Chelsea at home was crucial), missing aguero for over 40% of the season, and not having the opportunity to play Hart, Kompany, Toure, Silva, Nasri/Navas, Aguero together enough (Spurs away was the last time I think and look what happened there), Liverpool having a free hit with no European games is the reality of a mix of complex and nuanced reasons. Pellegrini and the players are responsible for the first point. But I accept the early start cost us too (individual mistakes particularly by Hart).

I have no problem with Liverpool having the rub of the green. That's football. It is their year. 25 years after Hillsborough. The season after Fergie retired having dominated them for over 20 years and the ability to keep Suarez last summer. The collective belief which has just accelerated and accelerated over the last 3 months is almost an unstoppable flow of momentum. Hence the way they nearly blew us away in the first half. It is just their year in my opinion.

I would only really become ultra critical of Pellegrini if we fucked up 2nd place or even worse struggled against Everton/Palace and god forbid struggled/failed to qualify for the CL which I don't think will happen (but injuries to Silva/Aguero) could make life hard over the next couple of weeks.

 

[hgblue]

Very difficult to assess this season in any clear defined way.

In one sense Pellegrini has had a good first season. Won a trophy. Had more cutting edge which we lacked last season. Got through to the CL knock out stages. And are on course (unless we fuck it up) to finish at least 2nd again with an improved points total in a strange season which as far as Im concerned re: Liverpool who will very likely win it, is a bit of an anomaly within the bigger picture of how things have been developing over the last 4 years. Add to that, our dreadful injury record (even with a squad our size - missing the spine of our team at many points over the season has really hurt us and would have killed off anyone else), and Liverpools unprecedented momentum for a team who previously finished outside of the top 5, it has been reasonably successful.

In another sense, one cannot escape the feeling of regret, failure and regression since we won the title two years ago, which is absolutely not Pellegrini's fault but a smell of it still lingers in terms of mentality. We have not dominated the PL like many of us thought we would. That is not being arrogant. And does not mean everyone expected us to win it 3, 4, 5, 6 times on the bounce. But to have finished quite a few points behind Utd last season and to have never really put a marker down this season or been top for long enough even with injuries is difficult to accept. I thought we would win it at least twice in 3 years and kick on. I accept we haven't 'lost it yet' but deep down we know we have. The two goals this season would have been to have won the title and secured CL knock out qualification. A major trophy is great and something we as fans would never play down having not won anything for decades, but the reality is we are here now. Competing. In a season which saw Utd post-Fergie, Chelsea struggle to score goals, Arsenal all but closing the chapter on Wenger, we are theoretically in danger of standing still. And the reality of FFP lingering. Utd will bounce back and sign one or two big players. Mourinho will improve Chelsea for next season. And Liverpool's stand alone season of momentum will reinvigerate a club which is so hungry for success again. I think next season is going to be harder still post the World Cup. I think we really needed to win the title this year. Just my personal point of view.

Excellent post that bud.