Discuss Pellegrini...(cont)

[johnson28392]

I think the issue you'd have with the above formation would be the lack of width, but with a little shuffling around, it wouldn't be too far off my preference. I get what you're saying about Aguero too, but I think if we attacked and defended as a unit he wouldn't become isolated and would have more than enough support around him.

I wouldn't have it as the primary formation but maybe as a secondary option. We've been a one trick pony this season. 4-2-2-2 and 4-2-3-1 are the same for me.

Liverpool might win the title this season and if you analyze their season you'll find that they've used more than one formation (4-2-2-2, 4-3-3, 4-4-2 diamond, 3-4-3, 3-5-2) .. this is how they got so many points .. when they find a game difficult, they just switch to a different formation to get gain more control or to be better defensively.

Everton is another club that utilizes a variety of formations, they've won so many points this season because of that.

Again I agree with you about us having a dearth of pacy goals scoring wingers/wide attackers and yes I agree Jovetic could possibly be the answer on the left as he's played there before for my favourite Italian club Fiorentina. But don't you think he'd be better suited to a No 10 role in a 4-4-2 or as a deep lying striker in a 4-2-3-1? I think Jovetic can be a revelation for us if he can get his fitness right and he offers us endless formation possibilities too.

His best position is off the main striker. But I think he can play in a narrow 4-3-3 or behind the two strikers in a 4-4-2 diamond.

4-3-3 / 4-1-2-3 / 4-1-4-1

Zabaleta--------------Kompany-----------MDM------------------Clichy

-------------------------------------Fernandinho------------------------------

---------------------Yaya-------------------------------Silva--------------------

Nasri-----------------------------Aguero-----------------------------Jovetic

Considering we have Navas, Milner, Negredo, Garcia there too, the possibilities would be endless.

4-2-1-3 / 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-2

Zabaleta--------------Kompany-----------MDM----------------Kolorov

-------------------Yaya---------------------------Fernandinho--------------

------------------------------------Jovetic---------------------------------------

Navas---------------------------Negredo---------------------------Milner

That's the thing with formations is as the match progresses they evolve and with the above formation, if Jovetic goes alongside Negredo, it's a 4-4-2. The important thing for me though is what we do when defending. If Jovetic drops deep, we don't get swamped in the midfield, if he stays up front we are light in midfield if the opposition play 3 in there albeit we are stronger up front IF the ball breaks for us. I suppose it's about personal preference and I'd always opt for being stronger in midfield and for the midfield to support the attack or defence when needed.

We'd be sound in defense and get a lot of control in midfield but unfortunately 4-3-3 brings the worse out of Aguero who's like our star man, the player whom the club want to build a team around. Navas , Milner and Nasri would be isolated too and I don't think they like to be isolated.

Don't you think being more compact as a team where attacking & Defending is concerned will stop them from being isolated? This is what I've seen of us playing an out and out 4-4-2 as in when we played Bayern and Sunderland both at home where the 2 attackers were stood on the halfway line whilst we were under pressure.

Navas, Milner & Nasri don't play as attackers but, I've always believed we're at our best when we play as a compact unit because when we play further away from each other, we can get swamped in midfield and have to play long balls to bring the strikers into play.

I saw this interesting article earlier which certainly raises some of the issues we've discussed in terms of tactic's etc.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2014/04/24/4772113/-

Yes, it would stop them from being isolated. A narrow 4-3-3 could work. Navas wouldn't fit in because can't play as a inward winger. But I also think that the front three have to be capable of scoring goals and I don't know if Milner and Nasri can do that. Mancini actually wanted to play with three forwards after our title winning season, that's why he wanted Van Persie. Imagine a forward line of Aguero, Van Persie and Tevez.

Yeah I think a narrow 4-3-3 can work.

It would have to look likes this:

It's how PSG play. They do it with Zlatan , Cavani and I think Lavezzi or Pastore.

 

[GoMancini7]

We can come up with all the excuses for Pelle, but it doesnt matter. What matters that he was able to strengthen an already very strong squad, he spent 90m, players were signed early on not last day of August, last years champions went so shit, it was logical to think that then the 2nd placed team from last year can spend nearly 100m on the squad, and many told us here a better manager coming in instead of Mancini, well these factors should result a title.
Only realistic fear was probably Mourinho and Chelsea, but given even they werent really great in the league thats another extra bonus for us. Next year they will have a 25-30 goal striker, that could be 5-10 points more for them.

I can accept no one predicted Pool doing so well, big surprise for everybody, even they didnt expect this probably and would have accepted a 3rd or 4th place in August. Also no one expected United going ot of CL places, while Spurs made a big mess after spending 100m on good players.

There were lot of mistakes this season, Pelle has to improve a lot and learn from these mistakes to deliver a big trophy next year.

League will be hard to win, Chelsea likely will improve, and United too with a decent new manager. Also they will outspend everybody, my fear is they wont be in Europe and one match per week is a big factor like it is for Pool now. Would prefer is Spurs would be the team without Europa League than United.
Some hard EL games on Thursday nights can be the difference between 4th and 5th place sometimes.

Next year Pelle has to win the league, 2 years must be enough for him to deliver the title. Our players at a very good age, they wont be younger, when we plan to win the title when Yaya, Kompany, Silva etc all will be 31-34 year old?
He will have the chance to spend again after last years 90m, probably once again players will come in early, thats a big help.

If he wont deliver the title next year it could be down to:
-Mourinho winning it with Chelsea, meaning two years was enough for him to deliver it. Wouldnt surprise me as his second seasons are generally better, thats when he really delivers, also they have chance to win CL this year too, two wins away from it...
-Arsenal winning it, Wenger finally wins a big trophy after all those years, but they need to improve lot more than us, if they do it, it would mean Pelle doesnt do an easier job better than Wenger. (Its easier to win the title with City, than Arsenal, surely...)
-Spurs winning, well even bigger surprise than Pool this year, it wont happen...
-Pool winning it again (yes they will win it this year), well if Rodgers can do that with CL games to play as well, turning 7th placed teams into two times champions in 2 years, wow...
-United winning it, meaning their new manager who more than possibly comes from abroad wont need any extra time, or first season or experience in England etc, and he wins it at first time with a squad that needs lot of improvement and replacing many outgoing players like evra, Campgob, Vidic, Giggs, Nani etc...

Instead of all this, Pelle should win the title, but this is far from sure. He needs to improve on these years mistakes. If he doesnt do that, one of the above scenarios will surely happen.

 

[mancity1]

We can come up with all the excuses for Pelle, but it doesnt matter. What matters that he was able to strengthen an already very strong squad, he spent 90m, players were signed early on not last day of August, last years champions went so shit, it was logical to think that then the 2nd placed team from last year can spend nearly 100m on the squad, and many told us here a better manager coming in instead of Mancini, well these factors should result a title.
Only realistic fear was probably Mourinho and Chelsea, but given even they werent really great in the league thats another extra bonus for us. Next year they will have a 25-30 goal striker, that could be 5-10 points more for them.

I can accept no one predicted Pool doing so well, big surprise for everybody, even they didnt expect this probably and would have accepted a 3rd or 4th place in August. Also no one expected United going ot of CL places, while Spurs made a big mess after spending 100m on good players.

There were lot of mistakes this season, Pelle has to improve a lot and learn from these mistakes to deliver a big trophy next year.

League will be hard to win, Chelsea likely will improve, and United too with a decent new manager. Also they will outspend everybody, my fear is they wont be in Europe and one match per week is a big factor like it is for Pool now. Would prefer is Spurs would be the team without Europa League than United.
Some hard EL games on Thursday nights can be the difference between 4th and 5th place sometimes.

Next year Pelle has to win the league, 2 years must be enough for him to deliver the title. Our players at a very good age, they wont be younger, when we plan to win the title when Yaya, Kompany, Silva etc all will be 31-34 year old?
He will have the chance to spend again after last years 90m, probably once again players will come in early, thats a big help.

If he wont deliver the title next year it could be down to:
-Mourinho winning it with Chelsea, meaning two years was enough for him to deliver it. Wouldnt surprise me as his second seasons are generally better, thats when he really delivers, also they have chance to win CL this year too, two wins away from it...
-Arsenal winning it, Wenger finally wins a big trophy after all those years, but they need to improve lot more than us, if they do it, it would mean Pelle doesnt do an easier job better than Wenger. (Its easier to win the title with City, than Arsenal, surely...)
-Spurs winning, well even bigger surprise than Pool this year, it wont happen...
-Pool winning it again (yes they will win it this year), well if Rodgers can do that with CL games to play as well, turning 7th placed teams into two times champions in 2 years, wow...
-United winning it, meaning their new manager who more than possibly comes from abroad wont need any extra time, or first season or experience in England etc, and he wins it at first time with a squad that needs lot of improvement and replacing many outgoing players like evra, Campgob, Vidic, Giggs, Nani etc...

Instead of all this, Pelle should win the title, but this is far from sure. He needs to improve on these years mistakes. If he doesnt do that, one of the above scenarios will surely happen.

The owners are patient but they expect results and while players can and will be held accountable in a number of ways if they fail to meet their personal and team objectives so is management.

MP will have his targets next season quite likely the bar will raised beyond what they were this year and if he fails to meet them he will be held accountable for failing to meet them.

That's the life of every manager no matter their expectation level and situation within the premiership.

While a lot has been made on this forum and amongst pundits about Mancini's man management style and his relationships with others within the club and in particular with those who could fire him the history will show the main reason was he was sacked was because he failed to meet his KPI's for team performance and more importantly team results.

 

[TFC]

I think the next 5 games will tell us a lot about Manuel and his ability to pick up a tired squad missing key players at a vital time.

Despite the early goal against Sunderland we really didnt look 'up for it' at all and that was a concern for me, against WBA we were far more cool and clinical and despite them having a couple of good breakaways, we never really had to get out of first gear.

This weekend we are going to be harried, pressured, Palace will really come at us in front of a really vocal crowd (as an aside, how fucking good have the Palace fans been this season?) and we are going to have to be right on our game to get the 3 points.

If the dippers beat Chelsea and we come out lethargic and looking like we have given up, fuck that. We should see nothing less than 100% between now and the end, I believe we as fans deserve no less and I doubt the sheikh would expect any less.

I agree and I wish we had 5 games to go TFC but alas its four and they should be our best four of the season if truth be told.

Its not a question of what Liverpool or Chelsea do , its what we do , what we know we can do and what we should and in fact must do.

If Everton get three points against Southampton the mind set should change no matter what Liverpool do and again we have to focus on getting three points at Crystal Palace.

It's our most important game of the season in so many ways for so many players and will tell MP at lot about some of them if not all of them.

I expect a more clinical performance on Sunday than we did at home on Wednesday.

I expect a Hull like performance and in many ways its a real test for the side without the player who more than any other showed what being down to ten men against a side away from home after 9 minutes was all about.

If nothing else they owe it to David Silva to a man to put in a real fiar dinkum shift on Sunday.

Bit of wishful thinking on my part there I reckon ;)

Cannot agree more with everything you wrote there blue.

 

[aguero93:20]

I wouldn't have it as the primary formation but maybe as a secondary option. We've been a one trick pony this season. 4-2-2-2 and 4-2-3-1 are the same for me.

Liverpool might win the title this season and if you analyze their season you'll find that they've used more than one formation (4-2-2-2, 4-3-3, 4-4-2 diamond, 3-4-3, 3-5-2) .. this is how they got so many points .. when they find a game difficult, they just switch to a different formation to get gain more control or to be better defensively.

Everton is another club that utilizes a variety of formations, they've won so many points this season because of that.



His best position is off the main striker. But I think he can play in a narrow 4-3-3 or behind the two strikers in a 4-4-2 diamond.



We'd be sound in defense and get a lot of control in midfield but unfortunately 4-3-3 brings the worse out of Aguero who's like our star man, the player whom the club want to build a team around. Navas , Milner and Nasri would be isolated too and I don't think they like to be isolated.

Don't you think being more compact as a team where attacking & Defending is concerned will stop them from being isolated? This is what I've seen of us playing an out and out 4-4-2 as in when we played Bayern and Sunderland both at home where the 2 attackers were stood on the halfway line whilst we were under pressure.

Navas, Milner & Nasri don't play as attackers but, I've always believed we're at our best when we play as a compact unit because when we play further away from each other, we can get swamped in midfield and have to play long balls to bring the strikers into play.

I saw this interesting article earlier which certainly raises some of the issues we've discussed in terms of tactic's etc.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2014/04/24/4772113/-

Yes, it would stop them from being isolated. A narrow 4-3-3 could work. Navas wouldn't fit in because can't play as a inward winger. But I also think that the front three have to be capable of scoring goals and I don't know if Milner and Nasri can do that. Mancini actually wanted to play with three forwards after our title winning season, that's why he wanted Van Persie. Imagine a forward line of Aguero, Van Persie and Tevez.

Yeah I think a narrow 4-3-3 can work.

It would have to look likes this:

It's how PSG play. They do it with Zlatan , Cavani and I think Lavezzi or Pastore.

Que? Sin Silva?

 

[johnson28392]

Don't you think being more compact as a team where attacking & Defending is concerned will stop them from being isolated? This is what I've seen of us playing an out and out 4-4-2 as in when we played Bayern and Sunderland both at home where the 2 attackers were stood on the halfway line whilst we were under pressure.

Navas, Milner & Nasri don't play as attackers but, I've always believed we're at our best when we play as a compact unit because when we play further away from each other, we can get swamped in midfield and have to play long balls to bring the strikers into play.

I saw this interesting article earlier which certainly raises some of the issues we've discussed in terms of tactic's etc.

http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/2896/premier-league/2014/04/24/4772113/-

Yes, it would stop them from being isolated. A narrow 4-3-3 could work. Navas wouldn't fit in because can't play as a inward winger. But I also think that the front three have to be capable of scoring goals and I don't know if Milner and Nasri can do that. Mancini actually wanted to play with three forwards after our title winning season, that's why he wanted Van Persie. Imagine a forward line of Aguero, Van Persie and Tevez.

Yeah I think a narrow 4-3-3 can work.

It would have to look likes this:

It's how PSG play. They do it with Zlatan , Cavani and I think Lavezzi or Pastore.

Que? Sin Silva?

Silva can play as a wide forward but he wouldn't get enough goals.

 

[Didsbury Dave]

Interesting to hear Shaun goater's take on the manager at the weekend, after becoming a full time City pundit: that he likes him, thinks he is the right manager for city and gets the majority of decisions right. He's been a surprisingly good analyst and his views echo mine on this as well.

 

[aguero93:20]

Yes, it would stop them from being isolated. A narrow 4-3-3 could work. Navas wouldn't fit in because can't play as a inward winger. But I also think that the front three have to be capable of scoring goals and I don't know if Milner and Nasri can do that. Mancini actually wanted to play with three forwards after our title winning season, that's why he wanted Van Persie. Imagine a forward line of Aguero, Van Persie and Tevez.

Yeah I think a narrow 4-3-3 can work.

It would have to look likes this:

It's how PSG play. They do it with Zlatan , Cavani and I think Lavezzi or Pastore.

Que? Sin Silva?

Silva can play as an inward winger but he wouldn't get enough goals.

*Leaves thread never to come back*

 

[mancity1]

Interesting to hear Shaun goater's take on the manager at the weekend, after becoming a full time City pundit: that he likes him, thinks he is the right manager for city and gets the majority of decisions right. He's been a surprisingly good analyst and his views echo mine on this as well.

I agree up until now DD but really would you expect him to say anything different or somewhat controversial at this stage of his punditory.

I cannot see anybody having a strong case for the removal of MP if we finish top three perhaps even dare I say it fourth this season.

 

[johnson28392]

Interesting to hear Shaun goater's take on the manager at the weekend, after becoming a full time City pundit: that he likes him, thinks he is the right manager for city and gets the majority of decisions right. He's been a surprisingly good analyst and his views echo mine on this as well.

I agree up until now DD but really would you expect him to say anything different or somewhat controversial at this stage of his punditory.

I cannot see anybody having a strong case for the removal of MP if we finish top three perhaps even dare I say it fourth this season.

i'm sure the targets for this season were to win one major trophy.

If Pellegrini wants to keep his job he has to atleast come close to winning the league. Finishing third or fourth is not "coming close".