Discuss Pellegrini...(cont)

[cibaman]

We will play exactly the same next season as we have this. Pellegrini isn't going to change his philosophy. When we play at Sunderland, Villa and Cardiff (or whoever takes their place in the PL) the tactics will not change. Hopefully the execution will be better and we might have a couple of better defenders in the team. But the idea that this season is part of a learning experience for the manager is wide of the mark.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Don't agree about Barry. He was starting to make more and more mistakes and becoming a bit of a liability, giving the ball away in dangerous areas. (And I don't think i will ever forget THAT own goal against Southampton).

The disappointment was not getting someone better to replace him since Garcia proved to be such toss in that role, at least initially (he's been quite good lately).

 

[cleavers]

But the idea that this season is part of a learning experience for the manager is wide of the mark.

I hope he dopesn't see it that way, everyone should learn to do better from situations that don't go well, I'm sure he will.

I do agree though that he won't change the way he plays, just some of the personnel, and hopefully we'll better balanced, and less prone to injury.

 

[Chippy_boy]

We will play exactly the same next season as we have this. Pellegrini isn't going to change his philosophy. When we play at Sunderland, Villa and Cardiff (or whoever takes their place in the PL) the tactics will not change. Hopefully the execution will be better and we might have a couple of better defenders in the team. But the idea that this season is part of a learning experience for the manager is wide of the mark.

One thing he will have learned (hopefully!) is that you cannot just turn up with a weakened side against the bottom teams and expect to win.

Despite his claiming othewise, it was plainly obvious that he completely underestimated our opponents on several occassions. If he has learned just one thing this season, that will be an invaluable lesson. Just think where we would be now if we had won at for example Cardiff, Sunderland, Villa etc.

 

[cleavers]

Just think where we would be now if we had won at for example Cardiff, Sunderland, Villa etc.

Just think where we would be now if we'd won all 34 games so far !

Teams lose games, even the best teams.

 

[Damocles]

We will play exactly the same next season as we have this. Pellegrini isn't going to change his philosophy. When we play at Sunderland, Villa and Cardiff (or whoever takes their place in the PL) the tactics will not change. Hopefully the execution will be better and we might have a couple of better defenders in the team. But the idea that this season is part of a learning experience for the manager is wide of the mark.

How could anybody possibly know that?

 

[Deleted member 58678]

We will play exactly the same next season as we have this. Pellegrini isn't going to change his philosophy. When we play at Sunderland, Villa and Cardiff (or whoever takes their place in the PL) the tactics will not change. Hopefully the execution will be better and we might have a couple of better defenders in the team. But the idea that this season is part of a learning experience for the manager is wide of the mark.

The tactics have been different in different games though. In games we lost and won (Cardiff away, Norwich at home) we played a slow build-up possession game, in games we lost and drew (Villa away, Norwich away) we tried to get it down the wings and sent dozens of crosses in, in games we won well (United and home, Spurs at home, Bayern away) we let the opposition have more of the ball and hit them on the counter to great effect, in games we lost and won (Chelsea home and away three times, Liverpool home and away, Arsenal home and away) we went toe-to-toe and played an open game with both teams having possession and chances...there have been games we've played 4-2-2-2 (Liverpool home), games where we've played 4-5-1 (Chelsea away, Arsenal away, United away)... we've changed our tactics more than, say, Guardiola has at Bayern, for example.

 

[cleavers]

On the subject of weakend teams, I agree we certainly have played them a few times (Watford and Wigan in particular), but not sure what was "weakend" about these teams.

Cardiff - Hart Zabaleta Lescott Garcia Clichy Navas (Nasri - 55') Silva Fernandinho (Milner - 77') Toure Dzeko (Negredo - 69') Aguero Subs Pantilimon Kolarov Nastasic Milner Nasri Rodwell Negredo (Kompany was injured)

Villa - Hart Kompany Zabaleta Kolarov Nastasic Milner Nasri (Navas - 66') Fernandinho Toure Negredo Dzeko (Jovetic - 74') Subs Pantilimon Richards Lescott Clichy Garcia Navas Jovetic (Aguero and Silva was injured)

Sunderland - Pantilimon Richards (Zabaleta - 71' ) Kolarov Javi García (Navas - 45') Demichelis Lescott Milner Touré Negredo (Dzeko - 71') Agüero Nasri
Subs Hart Zabaleta Dzeko Navas Rodwell Clichy Boyata (Kompany Fernandhino and Silva injured)

All three pretty well full strength, so something else wasn't right on the day, Cardiff was the shambolic set peice defending, Villa individual mistakes, and not taking the 25 first half chances to put the game to bed, and Sunderland was a lack of finishing from our strikers.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Just think where we would be now if we had won at for example Cardiff, Sunderland, Villa etc.

Just think where we would be now if we'd won all 34 games so far !

Teams lose games, even the best teams.

Congratulations on the most insightful post of the day.

There's losing games and there's needlessly fucking things up. There is a difference.

 

[supercity88]

I think it is hard to gauge where we should be and what we should have won. When Chelsea were taken over they were already a lot better than us and they were able to monopolise the league by buying everyone - particularly the best players from rival teams. The premier league is a lot more competitive now and the draw of the Champions League seems to count for much more than any cash. We had to entice players to the club as best as we could and that was by paying huge sums of money. Stage 1 was getting us towards Europe - we bought Bellamy, Bridge, Lescott, Kolo, Robinho and really, we all knew those players were not likely to dominate European football. We've been climbing a mountain one step at a time and have had to then offload those pricey and over paid players and introduce performance based wages and on the flip side have the Champions League to now attract players without paying over the odds.

In terms of our opportunity to dominate English football, well FFP's introduction made that even more difficult. Had we allowed Mancini to buy up all his prime targets, paid agent fees etc then we may have brushed all aside. As it happens we made a call to try and balance the books a little better and Mancini threw in the towel because he felt his squad was inadequate. I do find it interesting that the likes of De Niro harp on about how we should have stuck to the old school manager knows best approach and stood by Mancini no matter what. This is the same manager who is so desperate to sign big names he would pay their brother, father, cousin, daughter and their agent millions just to get them. It's no surprise that there are factions in the squad when you hear the amount of money that is flying around. I've said it time and time again that Mancini simply didn't fit in under City's new spending scheme. He was a cracking manager who did a great job with us, but when the cheque book suddenly had a limit he wasn't willing to graft. Mancini was a product of his own downfall by his mentality in the transfer market (which at the time was wholeheartedly supported by the club).

You have to look at the 2012 summer window as the chance we missed to dominate - we could have put down a marker last season and the fear factor and dominance of a back to back title would have put us down in the history books. But that is all behind us. Instead, we had a good summer window in 2013, got a new manager in and are rebuilding to try and get back to the top of English football, and European football, whilst also spending in a more structured manner. It is yet to be seen what impact, if any, FFP will have. UEFA seem pretty weak on it - the only real sanction will be a ban from European competition but they wont have the balls for that. Chelsea have to address the loss of Terry and Lampard as well as bringing in a star striker - they will have to sell in order to do so. Because of the restrictions now, and the number of quality teams, it may not be possible to dominate. We have the best squad in the country and we know where we can improve, if we do that then everything else is in place for us to challenge consistently in all competitions. We of course should have won the league this season - we should have been getting 89pts but if Liverpool hadn't of had their surprisingly good season - we would be confident of winning it. We've done a better job than Chelsea, across all four competitions so far. I still think we will win the league, and I think that will make things a lot easier next season.

-- Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:55 am --

I think it is hard to gauge where we should be and what we should have won. When Chelsea were taken over they were already a lot better than us and they were able to monopolise the league by buying everyone - particularly the best players from rival teams. The premier league is a lot more competitive now and the draw of the Champions League seems to count for much more than any cash. We had to entice players to the club as best as we could and that was by paying huge sums of money. Stage 1 was getting us towards Europe - we bought Bellamy, Bridge, Lescott, Kolo, Robinho and really, we all knew those players were not likely to dominate European football. We've been climbing a mountain one step at a time and have had to then offload those pricey and over paid players and introduce performance based wages and on the flip side have the Champions League to now attract players without paying over the odds.

In terms of our opportunity to dominate English football, well FFP's introduction made that even more difficult. Had we allowed Mancini to buy up all his prime targets, paid agent fees etc then we may have brushed all aside. As it happens we made a call to try and balance the books a little better and Mancini threw in the towel because he felt his squad was inadequate. I do find it interesting that the likes of De Niro harp on about how we should have stuck to the old school manager knows best approach and stood by Mancini no matter what. This is the same manager who is so desperate to sign big names he would pay their brother, father, cousin, daughter and their agent millions just to get them. It's no surprise that there are factions in the squad when you hear the amount of money that is flying around. I've said it time and time again that Mancini simply didn't fit in under City's new spending scheme. He was a cracking manager who did a great job with us, but when the cheque book suddenly had a limit he wasn't willing to graft. Mancini was a product of his own downfall by his mentality in the transfer market (which at the time was wholeheartedly supported by the club).

You have to look at the 2012 summer window as the chance we missed to dominate - we could have put down a marker last season and the fear factor and dominance of a back to back title would have put us down in the history books. But that is all behind us. Instead, we had a good summer window in 2013, got a new manager in and are rebuilding to try and get back to the top of English football, and European football, whilst also spending in a more structured manner. It is yet to be seen what impact, if any, FFP will have. UEFA seem pretty weak on it - the only real sanction will be a ban from European competition but they wont have the balls for that. Chelsea have to address the loss of Terry and Lampard as well as bringing in a star striker - they will have to sell in order to do so. Because of the restrictions now, and the number of quality teams, it may not be possible to dominate. We have the best squad in the country and we know where we can improve, if we do that then everything else is in place for us to challenge consistently in all competitions. We of course should have won the league this season - we should have been getting 89pts but if Liverpool hadn't of had their surprisingly good season - we would be confident of winning it. We've done a better job than Chelsea, across all four competitions so far. I still think we will win the league, and I think that will make things a lot easier next season.<br /><br />-- Fri Apr 25, 2014 8:56 am --<br /><br />

Just think where we would be now if we had won at for example Cardiff, Sunderland, Villa etc.

Just think where we would be now if we'd won all 34 games so far !

Teams lose games, even the best teams.

Congratulations on the most insightful post of the day.

There's losing games and there's needlessly fucking things up. There is a difference.

Correct. It is like the defeat to Liverpool - their first goal was from good build up - we should have defended better but it was good build up and sometimes you hold your hands up and say we were outplayed. But their other two were from awful defending and were completely preventable. That makes things much more difficult to accept.