Discuss Pellegrini...(cont)

[tolmie's hairdoo]

They were just examples that there are players out there, if the club finally wants to be decisive about the homegrown quota.

Most of those names are considered not available, but United look poised to splash thick end of £60m on Shaw and Lallana. They will fill holes for the next decade, so the huge original outlay comes back with minimal spend in the preceding windows.

If we sold Nasri, Dzeko, Richards, Hart, Rodwell, Garcia, Guidetti, Boyata - we would recoup best part of £80m-£90m.

We already have £70m burning a hole in our pockets this summer, so with the wages we would also save, Pellegrini has every chance to make a statement this summer.

I'm still pissed we passed on buying Sturridge back at £12m.

Ramsay - £35m?
Barkley - £40m?
Sterling - £35m?
Ward-Prowse - £15m?
Lallana - £25m?
Coleman £30m?
Clyne £10m?

These guys would all arrive for wages much lower than a majority of the departing ones.

All I am trying to say, (perhaps a little Football Manager) THERE ARE PLAYERS OUT THERE IN THIS COUNTRY

There will come a day in the next couple of years when Kompany will hit 30, Yaya and Fernandinho will be a little slower, Zabba will not be able to walk through every brick wall.

The fantastic academy we are building will still be a few years in reaping the dividends we hope, although I think both Cole and Fofana look the real deal.

What about spending less money on experienced homegrown as cover/squad players?

I know we're looking at this in one position, it may be the only way to go in certain positions to create the big bucks for others?

Perhaps, but I don't think the passport comes into that equation. We have very few experienced homegrown as it is?

Rodwell and Milner came with certain reps, Clichy was a cheap, Lescott and Barry, a necessity at the time.

The only way to create the wiggle room is to purge the players whose wages don't justify their retention, based on their playing contributions.

Dzeko and Nasri brings in £40m all day and £300k a week off the wage bill.

 

[Jacks77]

I would move out most of our English players easily, dont think they are good enough, Hart, Lescott, Sinclair, Barry, Richards...
Of course cant say we'd get big fees for them, 4-7m for Richards, 2m for Sinclair 10-15m for Hart maybe. (Maybe we could do some deal with Arsenal giving them Hart and they give someone like Ramsey of course they are so injury prone at Arsenal, maybe better to avoid them).

Nasri, Dzeko etc, I dont think they will move, them with many English players together would mean at least 7-8-9 players would have to be coming in, thats a lot, cant see Pelle making that big changes, he is too nice, bit of a yes man to the board, to the dressing room, dont think he will rip into 1/3 of the squad by putting him on transfer list.

Maybe all he plans is Mangala (Lescott out), Sagna, (Richards out) Fernando (Barry/+Rodwell/ out) and thats it maybe with some youngsters coming in too. This way our income from selling players would be pretty small but it wouldnt be a big spending, Sagna free, Mangala 30m, Fernando 10m maybe.
(Tho Fernando was 6 month away from being a free agent in January, wonder how much we will pay for him in the summer...)

Home grown quota makes it all messy, we will need home grown players but not the deadwood type of players like Rodwell, Boyata, always injured Richards etc...

If we really want quality English players in, that will cost us a lot, the likes of Shaw, Barkley. Dressing room would have to accept that young English players would be coming in and some of them would "put" older pros on the bench...
Like Shaw coming here, and Kolarov or Clichy would have to leave while the other would have to accept that if Shaw will be in good form he maybe wont get a look in for weeks...
Same with Barkley, if he comes here for 30m, he will expect to play instead of Nasri, Navas or who?

I think Txiki and Pelle will try to make a smaller transfer window, getting in Mangala, Fernando, Sagna in maybe, and if we find a good buyer for Dzeko then maybe he leaves too and an another attacker will come in but not Falcao or Cavani or someone like this, more of a 4th choice striker, a cheaper one.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

I'm all for a radical clear-out, even when it involves players that I think have made a significant contribution, such as Dzeko.

As I said recently, it's time to freshen up the squad. More youth, pace and desire required.

My serial question mark remains with Aguero. Is half a season every year really good enough, despite his obvious quality? I hope he proves me wrong and plays for 40 games next season, but I somehow doubt it. Games to goal ratios can sometimes mask a more fundamental problem.

I am loathed to speak of the devil, but Fergie regularly upgraded his teams in a 3-5 year cycle.

For me, it's time for bravery from Pellers and the Barca boys.

Ramsay and Sterling? If only...

Whilst I know where you are coming from in terms of Aguero, there is an elephant in the room which I am regularly mocked for, but I stand by it.

We have had more than our money back on Yaya, but I would go to Paris tomorrow and negotiate a £60m plus transfer.

What a player this man has been, a privilege, but we have to start thinking a couple of steps ahead.

He's only going to degrade in the next couple of years, based on age, his position, the money he is presently paid.

Yaya and Aguero are our biggest bargaining chips, over the next 18 months.

Those two transfer fees alone would more than allow us to hoover up the likes of Sterling, Ramsay, Barkley, Coleman.

Two steps back to take the next five years forward?

I do hope the club can see this.

 

[Scareye]

Good job you lot aren't in charge of the club


Our side would look like this





.......
...... .........

....... ......... ..........

........ Silva.........

...... Aguero

Still good enough to finish above United! :-)

 

[Chippy_boy]

I'm all for a radical clear-out, even when it involves players that I think have made a significant contribution, such as Dzeko.

As I said recently, it's time to freshen up the squad. More youth, pace and desire required.

My serial question mark remains with Aguero. Is half a season every year really good enough, despite his obvious quality? I hope he proves me wrong and plays for 40 games next season, but I somehow doubt it. Games to goal ratios can sometimes mask a more fundamental problem.

I am loathed to speak of the devil, but Fergie regularly upgraded his teams in a 3-5 year cycle.

For me, it's time for bravery from Pellers and the Barca boys.

Ramsay and Sterling? If only...

Whilst I know where you are coming from in terms of Aguero, there is an elephant in the room which I am regularly mocked for, but I stand by it.

We have had more than our money back on Yaya, but I would go to Paris tomorrow and negotiate a £60m plus transfer.

What a player this man has been, a privilege, but we have to start thinking a couple of steps ahead.

He's only going to degrade in the next couple of years, based on age, his position, the money he is presently paid.

Yaya and Aguero are our biggest bargaining chips, over the next 18 months.

Those two transfer fees alone would more than allow us to hoover up the likes of Sterling, Ramsay, Barkley, Coleman.

Two steps back to take the next five years forward?

I do hope the club can see this.

We don't have a manager looking 5 years forward though, do we. I don't mean his contact; realistically he has to be thinking he'll be retired in Chile by then. So he is very unlikely to want to do anything that is not going to bring short term improvement.

 

[supercity88]

The danger there is we end up in a similar situation - with promising young English players who fail to step up. There is too much over hyping and hysteria surrounding young players. There are very few that manage to perform consistently. Even Lallana, Shaw, Ward Prowse are hit and miss and all they have to play are domestic games. I see glimpses but nothing more. Rodwell was a brilliant prospect, the first player to emerge in his generation showing technique and physicality. Injuries have put pay to that promise. Now he simply has to perform or he is out. You can take a risk on young players and then have to endure seasons of mixed performances. Ramsay has had a good season, but has missed a considerable part of it and this really was win or bust for him. I would prefer to see us take a punt on Lallana than on Shaw. Lallana is technically very good and would add something to our side. I feel he would be just as useful as Nasri, who I feel we now need to offload for his inconsistencies. The trouble with the homegrown issue is that there is a huge gap in ages between the talented established players like Gerrard, Lampard etc who are ending their playing days, and the next group of consistent performers. You struggle to identify them. Will Shaw, Henderson, Sterling, Sturridge, Lallana still be in and around the England side next season? Barkley has dropped off a little following his injury, will he get back to the top? Townsend was a dead cert for Brazil earlier in the season but will now be unlikely to go.

The Rags had a core of academy players and spent big on Wio who was proven in his position. Rooney was a gamble but one that seemed likely to pay off. Only Sturridge or Barkley have the ability to make that impact from the latest crop of English players. The others will be inconsistent, Lallana being a good bet but not particularly young.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

I'm all for a radical clear-out, even when it involves players that I think have made a significant contribution, such as Dzeko.

As I said recently, it's time to freshen up the squad. More youth, pace and desire required.

My serial question mark remains with Aguero. Is half a season every year really good enough, despite his obvious quality? I hope he proves me wrong and plays for 40 games next season, but I somehow doubt it. Games to goal ratios can sometimes mask a more fundamental problem.

I am loathed to speak of the devil, but Fergie regularly upgraded his teams in a 3-5 year cycle.

For me, it's time for bravery from Pellers and the Barca boys.

Ramsay and Sterling? If only...

Whilst I know where you are coming from in terms of Aguero, there is an elephant in the room which I am regularly mocked for, but I stand by it.

We have had more than our money back on Yaya, but I would go to Paris tomorrow and negotiate a £60m plus transfer.

What a player this man has been, a privilege, but we have to start thinking a couple of steps ahead.

He's only going to degrade in the next couple of years, based on age, his position, the money he is presently paid.

Yaya and Aguero are our biggest bargaining chips, over the next 18 months.

Those two transfer fees alone would more than allow us to hoover up the likes of Sterling, Ramsay, Barkley, Coleman.

Two steps back to take the next five years forward?

I do hope the club can see this.

We don't have a manager looking 5 years forward though, do we. I don't mean his contact; realistically he has to be thinking he'll be retired in Chile by then. So he is very unlikely to want to do anything that is not going to bring short term improvement.

No, we have a Director of Football, and a very good one at that.

 

[carlos tevez is a blue]

It was right for Pellegrini to take stock and give everyone a chance, this season, injuries permitting.

But I do think the time will come for him to show a more ruthless streak, to protect his own position?

Rather than being all things, to all people, he must know who he can now carry forward, going into next season.

I'm a ruthless bastard so Nasri, Dzeko, Richards, Lescott, Hart, Rodwell, Nastasic, Clichy, Garcia, Guidetti, Boyata, they can all leave.

The time for passengers or technically limited players must come to an end.

It's time to scrub the decks, raise some serious additional funds, keep the squad nice and tight, no more than 22 (we'll probably get a 20-man restriction anyhow for Champs League).

Regardless of whether we win the league or not. We're still a couple of steps away from discarding revolution for evolution.

I trust Pellegrini and Txiki to identify the required level.

Fair few homegrown players there, who the fuck do we buy to replace them?

We're losing them anyway, Hart, aside, so the job must be in hand.

We've garnered a terrible reputation for not using home-based players.

The reality is, we simply have bought sub-standard ones, previously, token gestures.

Part of that is down to the overpricing in this country, but we've been burned on foreign imports too.

The real money needs to be thrown down for players such as Barkley, Coleman, Ramsay, Shaw, Sterling, Clyne, Pogba.

Players we can more or less say to them, 'Look, you are going to be in this team, most weeks.

Coleman or Clyne's not going to come and play most weeks, quite rightly Zaba will be our number 1 right back, Barkley's not going to be a certain starter either, Shaw I'll give you, Sterling would be a very good squad player as would Pogba to start with but more than likely would earn that spot.

 

[mcfcphil]

I'm all for a radical clear-out, even when it involves players that I think have made a significant contribution, such as Dzeko.

As I said recently, it's time to freshen up the squad. More youth, pace and desire required.

My serial question mark remains with Aguero. Is half a season every year really good enough, despite his obvious quality? I hope he proves me wrong and plays for 40 games next season, but I somehow doubt it. Games to goal ratios can sometimes mask a more fundamental problem.

I am loathed to speak of the devil, but Fergie regularly upgraded his teams in a 3-5 year cycle.

For me, it's time for bravery from Pellers and the Barca boys.

Ramsay and Sterling? If only...

Whilst I know where you are coming from in terms of Aguero, there is an elephant in the room which I am regularly mocked for, but I stand by it.

We have had more than our money back on Yaya, but I would go to Paris tomorrow and negotiate a £60m plus transfer.

What a player this man has been, a privilege, but we have to start thinking a couple of steps ahead.

He's only going to degrade in the next couple of years, based on age, his position, the money he is presently paid.

Yaya and Aguero are our biggest bargaining chips, over the next 18 months.

Those two transfer fees alone would more than allow us to hoover up the likes of Sterling, Ramsay, Barkley, Coleman.

Two steps back to take the next five years forward?

I do hope the club can see this.

You don't sell players like aguero and come out the other side better for it.
Other than very rare exceptions, you sell your best player - you are weaker for it.
Bit of an extreme example of course but we were told spurs would be better off for getting 80m for bale. Complete bollocks. Same when united sold ronaldo. Admittedly they went on to win trophies still but I'd argue that sale was the beginning of the end

 

[Chippy_boy]

The problem with buying young english players is, it's either a huge gamble which almost always doesn't come off (as demonstrated by the pitiful numbers who have actually made it to the very top level), or it's already so obvious that they are the real deal that they cost an absolute fortune and way over the odds.

The only solution to this is to grow your own rather than try to buy someone elses. Yes you get a lot of rejects and very few make it, but it's cheap by comparison (and doesn't compromise you regards FFPR) and you do make money on selling the nearly-good-enoughs and every now and again an Iniesta will come along.

I don't think trying to buy Sterling off Liverpool (for example) is any sort of solution. If our acadamy players are not ready yet then we have to carry on as we are until they are starting to come through. Not paying way over the odds to some other club who had done the leg work or got lucky.