Discuss Pellegrini...(cont)

[JoeMercer'sWay]

Tolmie caught me on Ramsey, now that's one that would be uber. How I'm now hoping Everton finish 4th to tempt a few more Gunners to the door.

Problem is if we spend £120m on British players we won't have an awful lot left for the couple of world class players we need.

 

[Chippy_boy]

Tolmie caught me on Ramsey, now that's one that would be uber. How I'm now hoping Everton finish 4th to tempt a few more Gunners to the door.

Problem is if we spend £120m on British players we won't have an awful lot left for the couple of world class players we need.

Honestly I can't see that in a million years. We have a manager who is not interested in doing so and a management team who could have done so in the last few transfer windows if they were so inclined, but they weren't.

It's not happening (thankfully, imho).

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

The problem with buying young english players is, it's either a huge gamble which almost always doesn't come off (as demonstrated by the pitiful numbers who have actually made it to the very top level), or it's already so obvious that they are the real deal that they cost an absolute fortune and way over the odds.

The only solution to this is to grow your own rather than try to buy someone elses. Yes you get a lot of rejects and very few make it, but it's cheap by comparison (and doesn't compromise you regards FFPR) and you do make money on selling the nearly-good-enoughs and every now and again an Iniesta will come along.

I don't think trying to buy Sterling off Liverpool (for example) is any sort of solution. If our acadamy players are not ready yet then we have to carry on as we are until they are starting to come through. Not paying way over the odds to some other club who had done the leg work or got lucky.

And all the time we will wither on the vine.

Players coming through our Academy won't be dropped into a team that is competing for trophies, unless they are something out of this world.

They certainly won't be playing every week, where the likes of Barkley, Sterling and other examples have already been test-driven, and have sufficient qualities to be pretty damn sure they can make a real contribution.

My point being, we have a real problem this summer with the quota and instead of paying lip service to it, both Pellegrini and Txiki need to eliminate the margin for error the best they can, by throwing down proper money for proper British players.

We can't stand still just because we have a team at present that is competitive. Our squad is not a young one and it's about being smart for the long term.

I also understand the point about not selling Aguero, because teams who sell their best players, don't tend to come out well the other side.

Spurs, however, could not afford to make mistakes with the Bale money, they did, we can.

United pull in the sort of income that will allow them to spend huge amounts this summer to start afresh.

Due to the way we have arrived at the top table, we will have to be more reliant on using existing assets, in the next few years, to keep moving forward to a point where the Academy does start to pay its way.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

Whilst I know where you are coming from in terms of Aguero, there is an elephant in the room which I am regularly mocked for, but I stand by it.

We have had more than our money back on Yaya, but I would go to Paris tomorrow and negotiate a £60m plus transfer.

What a player this man has been, a privilege, but we have to start thinking a couple of steps ahead.

He's only going to degrade in the next couple of years, based on age, his position, the money he is presently paid.

Yaya and Aguero are our biggest bargaining chips, over the next 18 months.

Those two transfer fees alone would more than allow us to hoover up the likes of Sterling, Ramsay, Barkley, Coleman.

Two steps back to take the next five years forward?

I do hope the club can see this.

We don't have a manager looking 5 years forward though, do we. I don't mean his contact; realistically he has to be thinking he'll be retired in Chile by then. So he is very unlikely to want to do anything that is not going to bring short term improvement.

No, we have a Director of Football, and a very good one at that.

I'm 50/50 on that one.
Whilst it is true that we have a director of football and therefore the managers tenure should be irrelevant I'm not sure the type of players you list and I would like to see at city are the type of player he's interested in.
I think it more likely that we will rotate through 2nd tier home grown players to meet the requirement.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Tolmie caught me on Ramsey, now that's one that would be uber. How I'm now hoping Everton finish 4th to tempt a few more Gunners to the door.

Problem is if we spend £120m on British players we won't have an awful lot left for the couple of world class players we need.

Honestly I can't see that in a million years. We have a manager who is not interested in doing so and a management team who could have done so in the last few transfer windows if they were so inclined, but they weren't.

It's not happening (thankfully, imho).

And if we don't have a manager or director of football who is not interested, then we have the wrong people.

We have enough world class players, what we don't have are any serious top class British players who can either start or come in.

We spent £100m last summer.

We'll have to disagree. In hindsight, Barkley, Shaw, Ramsey, Sterling would all have been significant upgrades, and still would be.

I remember the pride I felt when we had seven England players on the same field that night in Switzerland, a record at the time.

Granted, they were not good enough, but a team who is one of the leading lights in this country should be supplying more than Hart and Milner IMO.

Our original policy was to go after our main domestic rivals' best assets. It has many benefits.

 

[Jacks77]

One thing is sure, if we dont go for Barkley, Shaw etc. our close rivals will...
(Even if we would go for them they could end up at our rivals.)

 

[Chippy_boy]

Tolmie caught me on Ramsey, now that's one that would be uber. How I'm now hoping Everton finish 4th to tempt a few more Gunners to the door.

Problem is if we spend £120m on British players we won't have an awful lot left for the couple of world class players we need.

Honestly I can't see that in a million years. We have a manager who is not interested in doing so and a management team who could have done so in the last few transfer windows if they were so inclined, but they weren't.

It's not happening (thankfully, imho).

And if we don't have a manager or director of football who is not interested, then we have the wrong people.

We have enough world class players, what we don't have are any serious top class British players who can either start or come in.

We spent £100m last summer.

We'll have to disagree. In hindsight, Barkley, Shaw, Ramsey, Sterling would all have been significant upgrades, and still would be.

I remember the pride I felt when we had seven England players on the same field that night in Switzerland, a record at the time.

Granted, they were not good enough, but a team who is one of the leading lights in this country should be supplying more than Hart and Milner IMO.

Our original policy was to go after our main domestic rivals' best assets. It has many benefits.

The problem with your strategy is that it is based on hindsight. Of course we can all see that the players you name above would have been great additions. But how much do you think it would cost us to get Sterling from Brendan Rogers, NOW? Honestly? He would want ridiculous money and probably double what we would spend for as good or better from Spain or Germany.

You are like a novice stock market investor looking at all the stocks that have already trebled and wanting to buy them then. The trick is buying them before that. And with football, that either means a buying a load of players who turn out to be duds, or growing your own. Buying someone elses is not the right approach.

 

[flb]

Honestly I can't see that in a million years. We have a manager who is not interested in doing so and a management team who could have done so in the last few transfer windows if they were so inclined, but they weren't.

It's not happening (thankfully, imho).

And if we don't have a manager or director of football who is not interested, then we have the wrong people.

We have enough world class players, what we don't have are any serious top class British players who can either start or come in.

We spent £100m last summer.

We'll have to disagree. In hindsight, Barkley, Shaw, Ramsey, Sterling would all have been significant upgrades, and still would be.

I remember the pride I felt when we had seven England players on the same field that night in Switzerland, a record at the time.

Granted, they were not good enough, but a team who is one of the leading lights in this country should be supplying more than Hart and Milner IMO.

Our original policy was to go after our main domestic rivals' best assets. It has many benefits.

The problem with your strategy is that it is based on hindsight. Of course we can all see that the players you name above would have been great additions. But how much do you think it would cost us to get Sterling from Brendan Rogers, NOW? Honestly? He would want ridiculous money and probably double what we would spend for as good or better from Spain or Germany.

You are like a novice stock market investor looking at all the stocks that have already trebled and wanting to buy them then. The trick is buying them before that. And with football, that either means a buying a load of players who turn out to be duds, or growing your own. Buying someone elses is not the right approach.

Not sure about hindsight, its having the ability and the balls to take a lesser gamble and bring players to the club before they become established expensive starts.

The World and his wife could see that Shaw was a very very good player end of 2012/13 season, Colman is another, Oxlade ,Ramsay all players who would flourish with the players they would have around them at our club if we had shown balls and brought them here.

Weve missed a trick in my book and now it will cost us a pretty penny to replace the outgoing homegrown players.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Honestly I can't see that in a million years. We have a manager who is not interested in doing so and a management team who could have done so in the last few transfer windows if they were so inclined, but they weren't.

It's not happening (thankfully, imho).

And if we don't have a manager or director of football who is not interested, then we have the wrong people.

We have enough world class players, what we don't have are any serious top class British players who can either start or come in.

We spent £100m last summer.

We'll have to disagree. In hindsight, Barkley, Shaw, Ramsey, Sterling would all have been significant upgrades, and still would be.

I remember the pride I felt when we had seven England players on the same field that night in Switzerland, a record at the time.

Granted, they were not good enough, but a team who is one of the leading lights in this country should be supplying more than Hart and Milner IMO.

Our original policy was to go after our main domestic rivals' best assets. It has many benefits.

The problem with your strategy is that it is based on hindsight. Of course we can all see that the players you name above would have been great additions. But how much do you think it would cost us to get Sterling from Brendan Rogers, NOW? Honestly? He would want ridiculous money and probably double what we would spend for as good or better from Spain or Germany.

You are like a novice stock market investor looking at all the stocks that have already trebled and wanting to buy them then. The trick is buying them before that. And with football, that either means a buying a load of players who turn out to be duds, or growing your own. Buying someone elses is not the right approach.

But you saw my hindsight reference, right?

You really don't need to teach me to suck eggs, mate. I've been in and around football my entire life.

If football was as easy as you say, there would be no transfer market. A stock trader also knows when the right time to sell is, when to freshen up his portfolio.

We bought our entire team, it's worked out pretty well these last few years?

Regardless of how you personally view that approach, the reality is that top players go for mammoth sums based on what they are doing now.

Every signing is a risk, whichever club is involved.

For the record, Marwood tried to sign Sterling when he was at QPR but the kid chose Liverpool because he didn't think he would get a chance at City.

I'd say any significant amount of money would get any club to consider selling their best assets.

As United are showing with Shaw and Lallana.

The fact is that we can't keep buying from Spain or Germany, due to the homegrown rules.

Even the youngsters we are recruiting from around the world, we are already speculating on with very big money.

 

[supercity88]

And if we don't have a manager or director of football who is not interested, then we have the wrong people.

We have enough world class players, what we don't have are any serious top class British players who can either start or come in.

We spent £100m last summer.

We'll have to disagree. In hindsight, Barkley, Shaw, Ramsey, Sterling would all have been significant upgrades, and still would be.

I remember the pride I felt when we had seven England players on the same field that night in Switzerland, a record at the time.

Granted, they were not good enough, but a team who is one of the leading lights in this country should be supplying more than Hart and Milner IMO.

Our original policy was to go after our main domestic rivals' best assets. It has many benefits.

The problem with your strategy is that it is based on hindsight. Of course we can all see that the players you name above would have been great additions. But how much do you think it would cost us to get Sterling from Brendan Rogers, NOW? Honestly? He would want ridiculous money and probably double what we would spend for as good or better from Spain or Germany.

You are like a novice stock market investor looking at all the stocks that have already trebled and wanting to buy them then. The trick is buying them before that. And with football, that either means a buying a load of players who turn out to be duds, or growing your own. Buying someone elses is not the right approach.

But you saw my hindsight reference, right?

You really don't need to teach me to suck eggs, mate. I've been in and around football my entire life.

If football was as easy as you say, there would be no transfer market. A stock trader also knows when the right time to sell is, when to freshen up his portfolio.

We bought our entire team, it's worked out pretty well these last few years?

Regardless of how you personally view that approach, the reality is that top players go for mammoth sums based on what they are doing now.

Every signing is a risk, whichever club is involved.

For the record, Marwood tried to sign Sterling when he was at QPR but the kid chose Liverpool because he didn't think he would get a chance at City.

I'd say any significant amount of money would get any club to consider selling their best assets.

As United are showing with Shaw and Lallana.

The fact is that we can't keep buying from Spain or Germany, due to the homegrown rules.

Even the youngsters we are recruiting from around the world, we are already speculating on with very big money.

Depends how we operate. We can get rid of Kolorov instead of Clichy. We can get rid of Pantillimon to add a home grown player. We will have to take a punt on homegrown players at some stage but it isn't good business to fork out millions when there are better options abroad. Barkley is a special player - he is potentially one of the best in that position - Sterling is also extremely good. Shaw is just another left back, there are better out there. Lallana seems pointless when Barkley is younger and has more potential. Meanwhile, if we buy well and focus on some instant impact players - Fernando and a proven centre back, we can "buy" a little time for our academy to kick in and supplement the squad and the likelihood is there will be 2 or 3 that can come in over the next couple of seasons, bolstering the home grown rule and adding to our squad. You look at the likes of Clichy, Kolorov, Richards, Lescott, Garcia, Rodwell and even Nasri, Milner and Navas and our academy players must be confident they can win a place in our starting 11 or squad ahead of those.