Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[flb]

Clichy and Hart are nowhere near at the level of last season.

Clichy runs like he's got wellies on and Hart's confidence is completely shot.


Kompany fair point, but we are missing his inspiration on the defensive unit as a whole.

you cant blame Manuel mate for players going drastically out of form.

[bigimg]http://www.barriesview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/201213-goalkeeper-stats.png[/bigimg]

Joe Hart was not in decent form all of last season, his shots to saves ratio shows that. Clichy would be harder to prove as there's no easy stat which shows that.

Good stats mate but Hart isnt even at the level of last season, hes abysmal so far, can it be sorted, yes it can.

 

[waspish]

I don't think we are at all. I think we've generally been poor defensively. I refuse to believe that these errors, are completely unrelated to the change in manager. When players made mistakes before others were there to mop them up. The lower line meant there wasn't as much ground between keeper and central defence. The full-backs staying back more often meant there was usually more players on hand to clean up as well. If Clichy had been available would Nastasic have nodded it back to him? Most likely, and was there any need for Clichy to go forward considering how abysmal his attacking record is? Most likely not. Barry also played further back and by far the best aspect of his game was his ability to read the game and mop up the mistakes. I don't think any of this is an accident. Pellegrini was brought in to be more attacking, and he has been. As a a result we've been more exposed and conceded more. It is not in any way unfathomable. It was in fact predictable. Most of us predicted it, you included:



Unfortunately it is currently affecting results, if/when the time comes when it isn't costing us points, I will shut up about our defence. Until then, it will cost us trophies and that's the name of the game.

Spot on and is why we will naff all under Pelegrini a good defence always out does a good attacking side..

Really? So you wouldn't say that Liverpool's position in the league is almost entirely due to Suarez and Sturridge then?

They won't win anything either..

 

[K-Bo]

Pellegrini has improved the attack at the slight cost of the defence, but by aand large defensive performances haven't been that bad, not brilliant but teams aren't swarming us or anything.

we just have a goalkeeper whose costing us about 3 points a month. Swap Joe Hart for Cech and we'd be top of the league. Most people on here criticizing Pellegrini are the same ones who keep insisting Joe is world class, form is temporary class is permanent etc.. But Pellegrini did what most people said he should do, gave Hart a chance to play through it.

For me Hart is the single reason we're 6 points of the league summit. Without him making elementary mistakes, we beat cardiff and we at least draw against Villa, we get a point yesterday.

That's what, conservatively 5 more points then we have now, which would put us what, one off the top with a run of decent fixtures coming.

I think Pellegrini is to blame for the performances against Cardiff, stoke and Hull, which were poor, and maybe Bayern a little but I think people are deluded if they think there's any formation that had us winning that game, too good is too good.

But in fairness to him, we're scoring goals again, something we couldn't do under Mancini last year. And breaking down defences is coming more easily.

Leaving the defence more exposed you could say, but Mancini being afraid of losing was a big problem for us last season, draws more than losses undercut our title challenge last year. You draw 3 games, you get the same points as if you won 1 and lost two,

By and large I like what Pellegrini is doing, but individual errors, mostly from Hart, are undercutting him.

Casillas in January or someone similar is the only way we win the league. Hart has a terminal case of the Yips IMO, just going to get worse not better.

 

[flb]

Clichy and Hart are nowhere near at the level of last season.

Clichy runs like he's got wellies on and Hart's confidence is completely shot.


Kompany fair point, but we are missing his inspiration on the defensive unit as a whole.

you cant blame Manuel mate for players going drastically out of form.

[bigimg]http://www.barriesview.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/201213-goalkeeper-stats.png[/bigimg]

Joe Hart was not in decent form all of last season, his shots to saves ratio shows that. Clichy would be harder to prove as there's no easy stat which shows that.

Forgot to add mate, id rather look at his tally of clean sheets, he was a damn sight better last season than so far in this.

 

[mcfcphil]

Individuals need to cut out their errors. After a tricky first few matches, as a team we're defending as well as we did under Mancini.

I don't think we are at all. I think we've generally been poor defensively. I refuse to believe that these errors, are completely unrelated to the change in manager. When players made mistakes before others were there to mop them up. The lower line meant there wasn't as much ground between keeper and central defence. The full-backs staying back more often meant there was usually more players on hand to clean up as well. If Clichy had been available would Nastasic have nodded it back to him? Most likely, and was there any need for Clichy to go forward considering how abysmal his attacking record is? Most likely not. Barry also played further back and by far the best aspect of his game was his ability to read the game and mop up the mistakes. I don't think any of this is an accident. Pellegrini was brought in to be more attacking, and he has been. As a a result we've been more exposed and conceded more. It is not in any way unfathomable. It was in fact predictable. Most of us predicted it, you included:

Will concede more goals than we did under Mancini? In all likelihood probably, but I expect this will be a minor hazard which won't effect results.

Unfortunately it is currently affecting results, if/when the time comes when it isn't costing us points, I will shut up about our defence. Until then, it will cost us trophies and that's the name of the game.

Don't agree with most of your assessments on why we're conceding goals, and as I say, I think as a team we have in the last couple of weeks defended as well as we did under Mancini. The individual errors have killed us. My confidence in the manager and 99% of the players after yesterday's performance remains sky high.

I’m sorry but our defence isn’t even close to what it was under mancini. I had put that down to just playing two in midfield but we still looked shaky yesterday.
We will certainly be better off when kompany is back but even so there are issues to be resolved.
If pellegrini is sacrificing some defensive solidity for a more attacking set up then i don’t necessarily have a problem with it but to say our defence is as good as it was under mancini is wrong in my opinion.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't think he's done badly pellegrini, we've played very well, it's just calamitous individual errors that have cost us on the road.

i hope he now fucks hart off and gives kolarov a run.

 

[waspish]

So why did you think before the season started that we'd concede more?

We're more open, but that's not why we're conceding IMO. You can pick through every goal we've conceded this season and I would suggest not even half of them would be because of the high line, or because there's no Gareth Barry to sit in front of the back 4. I would however say that nearly all of them have been due to individual errors from players you don't normally associate with individual errors.

-- Mon Oct 28, 2013 12:04 pm --

Spot on and is why we will naff all under Pelegrini a good defence always out does a good attacking side..

Haha. You do make me laugh. Our good defence was beaten to the league title by a poorer defence but better attacking side just last season!

They did have one of the best managers ever and we finished second got to a cup final with players disliking Mancini! We will get no where near 2nd this season or a cup final under this manager great football to watch though I'll give Pelegrini that, but now it's about winning trophies where we are as a club..

 

[Anonymous]

I’m sorry but our defence isn’t even close to what it was under mancini. I had put that down to just playing two in midfield but we still looked shaky yesterday.
We will certainly be better off when kompany is back but even so there are issues to be resolved.
If pellegrini is sacrificing some defensive solidity for a more attacking set up then i don’t necessarily have a problem with it but to say our defence is as good as it was under mancini is wrong in my opinion.

Collectively we're defending as well as we did under Mancini. The team shape has been right the last few weeks, we've been compact and not left huge gaping holes in between our midfield and back 4, and we haven't looked anywhere near as vulnerable as we did in the opening weeks of the season. The Bayern result/performance aside, I'd say since Villa away we've been steadily improving both as an attacking force and as a defensive unit.

 

[Skashion]

We're more open, but that's not why we're conceding IMO. You can pick through every goal we've conceded this season and I would suggest not even half of them would be because of the high line, or because there's no Gareth Barry to sit in front of the back 4. I would however say that nearly all of them have been due to individual errors from players you don't normally associate with individual errors.

We're not talking about half of goals. We're talking about approximately three. Those are the fine margins which will drop you points. Our long term goals conceded per game for the past three years as the best defence in the league is 0.84 (114 games, 96 goals conceded), currently it is 1.22 as the 11th best defence in the league. Those 14 goals are the difference between first and eleventh, and also probably the difference between first and fifth in the final league table. That 1.22 has got to come down to win the league. I don't think there's any other way. Winning the league whilst conceding 46 goals is not at all likely. No team has won the Premier League conceding that many, not even when it was 42 games a season. It needn't come down to Mancini levels, but it does have to come down.

 

[Anonymous]

We will get no where near 2nd this season or a cup final under this manager

Duly noted.

One of us is going to be right come the end of the season. I'm more than confident it'll be me. You do our manager and our players a huge disservice IMO posting comments about how we'll get nowhere near the top 2.