Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[adrianr]

Pelegrini for me needs to win something this season to convince me he is a trophy winning manager

Agree completely. I think that Mourinho, Klopp, Ancelotti or Pep, arguable the four best managers in the world at the moment, would win a trophy this season with our squad. Pellegrini should be under the same expectation.

 

[crystal_mais]

I'll discuss Pelligreni, never in a million years will he win as much as Mancini. Either here or anywhere else.

If the players were unhappy then didums. I'd have sold the lot. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.

Oh no senior doom merchant is here.

Let's all pack up and go home now chaps. We won't be winning another trophy anytime soon.

lets talk again in 5 years.


any more nodding dogs?

-- Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:08 am --

I'll discuss Pelligreni, never in a million years will he win as much as Mancini. Either here or anywhere else.

If the players were unhappy then didums. I'd have sold the lot. Talk about the tail wagging the dog.

I think joe hart will struggle to get a posse of players together to get rid of pelles like he did with our last gaffer :)

actually that's a good point. I wonder how many given the chance to choose to stay along with mancini would do so. those that hated him could choose to go. bearing in mind there wouldn't be 200 grand a week popping in to their bank elsewhere.

He obviously won't win as much in 5 years but I am confident he will have won us a couple before he leaves.

You'd be pleasantly surprised to hear the level of discontent against the previous manager and the players that felt it.

Hey I suppose you must come from the old managerial school of you do as I say whether you like it or not - as I pay your wages and know best and can treat you however I want!!! -

See Saint Bob was not on the best Manager list for the year - neither was MP but he wasn't managing a team with great expectations and had won a league the year before.

Don't think Mancini will be coming back anytime soon happy to send you some choccies and tissues to help you get over it :)

 

[hgblue]

I do not normally get involved with the debate over Mancini v Pellegrini. For me Mancini will always be a legend in what he did for the club. Regardless of the finances he had and the players, he changed the mentality of the club and the way we are seen and regarded around the world. We played some fantastic football and won trophies. You cannot argue with that. He left the club and the reasons are debatable, but he has now gone. I remember being at Wembley and hearing that Pellegrini was the man to replace him and found the whole thing farcical considering the monumental occasion we were facing. I did not know too much about Pellegrini I must admit, and since his appointment I have looked into his previous managerial stints and what his methodology and philosophy are. I have spoken about it at length.

What I would do is look comparatively at our results last season compared to this. For me performance is important as it is a sign that results will come, but dependent on your outlook many will argue over whether our performances are better than last season or not.

So lets look into that...

Last season after 9 games we were on 21 pts after 9 games and this season we are on 16pts
Last season we had scored 18, conceded 9 in the league and this season we have scored 21 and conceded 11.

Now if we take the actual teams we have played and compare to last season then it paints a different picture.

If we replace Hull at home with Saints or Reading then the result is the same so that will not impact, if we replace Cardiff away then we either can add 3 pts because we beat Reading, or stay the same as we lost at saints.

So comparatively against the same teams we would have had either 13pts or 16pts depending whether you use Southampton or Reading away. Paints the picture that we haven't really gone backwards at all. And when you consider we were also knocked out of the League Cup at home to Villa and had picked up 1pt in the Champions League (yes yes I know different teams) but the situation is not so bleak.

Using the scenario of games whereby we were on 16pts (Reading away replaces Cardiff) then you can get an idea of what we scored and conceded, it is complicated by replacing Hull and Cardiff with other promoted sides because of difference but using the upper end of goals scored scenario and lower end of goals conceded we scored = 14 and conceded = 5. This season we see that it is 21 - 11.

Have we progressed??? Have we taken a step backwards? Well when you look at the fact individual errors have cost us goals at Cardiff, Villa and Chelsea and that we probably should have taken more points and would have without those errors and that general play most would suggest we deserved more from Villa and Chelsea, then I think we have moved forward.

Combine that with improved performance in Champions League and being in the next round of the cup, for a new manager in a new league with a new team we are not doing too badly. Once individual errors are stopped and defensive performance improves I think the overall picture would suggest that the board were right to remove Mancini.

Sorry, I'm not having this. We've lost against two no-hopers who've each won one home game all season. We've gifted Chelsea 3 points on a platter. We've produced comedy defending that your average school kid would be red faced about. We've been absolutely schooled by Munich whilst the manager played with his ring for 70 minutes. The only bright side is that we've been handed an easier Champs League group so it looks like we'll qualify.

 

[Anonymous]

The only bright side is that we've been handed an easier Champs League group so it looks like we'll qualify.

Really? The only bright side?

Hahahahaha. Personally I'm going with our impeccable home record, our best players rediscovering their best form, our attacking play becoming more consistent ... oh and, the almost obligatory slapping of the rags. Plenty of bright sides if you ask me ... ;)

 

[r.soleofsalford]

The only bright side is that we've been handed an easier Champs League group so it looks like we'll qualify.

Really? The only bright side?

Hahahahaha. Personally I'm going with our impeccable home record, our best players rediscovering their best form, our attacking play becoming more consistent ... oh and, the almost obligatory slapping of the rags. Plenty of bright sides if you ask me ... ;)

being able to stand toe to toe with the best the league has to offer and looking as good if not better

 

[Anonymous]

The only bright side is that we've been handed an easier Champs League group so it looks like we'll qualify.

Really? The only bright side?

Hahahahaha. Personally I'm going with our impeccable home record, our best players rediscovering their best form, our attacking play becoming more consistent ... oh and, the almost obligatory slapping of the rags. Plenty of bright sides if you ask me ... ;)

being able to stand toe to toe with the best the league has to offer and looking as good if not better

Ah yeah but the fact is Joe Hart made a blunder and we lost the match .... so that's one in favour of the "we're going nowhere under the Chilean David Moyes" brigade.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

The only bright side is that we've been handed an easier Champs League group so it looks like we'll qualify.

Really? The only bright side?

Hahahahaha. Personally I'm going with our impeccable home record, our best players rediscovering their best form, our attacking play becoming more consistent ... oh and, the almost obligatory slapping of the rags. Plenty of bright sides if you ask me ... ;)

You are right Billy, there are plenty of things to be pleased with. Our general play has improved greatly, imo, since last season and many of the players look completely different, with a spring in their step once more. However, it is also fair to say that if Pellegrini doesn't sort out the defending then all the positives will continue to be undermined. Some of it is due to bad form and mistakes, which to an extent is difficult to blame the manager for but I don't think we look very organised at the back. It is way too easy to get in behind us, I wish we'd ditch this stepping up to play offside at every opportunity. We don't always concede doing it but we are giving away far too many chances due to it.

 

[r.soleofsalford]

Really? The only bright side?

Hahahahaha. Personally I'm going with our impeccable home record, our best players rediscovering their best form, our attacking play becoming more consistent ... oh and, the almost obligatory slapping of the rags. Plenty of bright sides if you ask me ... ;)

being able to stand toe to toe with the best the league has to offer and looking as good if not better

Ah yeah but the fact is Joe Hart made a blunder and we lost the match .... so that's one in favour of the "we're going nowhere under the Chilean David Moyes" brigade.

not everyone can be as knowledgeable on football matter as we two billy, its a sad fact 8-)

 

[TGR]

The only bright side is that we've been handed an easier Champs League group so it looks like we'll qualify.

Really? The only bright side?

Hahahahaha. Personally I'm going with our impeccable home record, our best players rediscovering their best form, our attacking play becoming more consistent ... oh and, the almost obligatory slapping of the rags. Plenty of bright sides if you ask me ... ;)

You are right Billy, there are plenty of things to be pleased with. Our general play has improved greatly, imo, since last season and many of the players look completely different, with a spring in their step once more. However, it is also fair to say that if Pellegrini doesn't sort out the defending then all the positives will continue to be undermined. Some of it is due to bad form and mistakes, which to an extent is difficult to blame the manager for but I don't think we look very organised at the back. It is way too easy to get in behind us, I wish we'd ditch this stepping up to play offside at every opportunity. We don't always concede doing it but we are giving away far too many chances due to it.

Lancet, I'd say thats a pretty good overall synopsis of the situation. It's a bit like the weather foreacast 'bright in patches'. Obviously our defending is the biggest worry for most fair minded, objective supporters and it clearly needs to be addressed and quickly. Lets not also forget the team has had another £100m chucked at it since MP arrived so real improvement should be expected and not just be a pleasant surprise.
If we sort out the defensive situation and the frequent 'individual errors' we have the opportunity to win a trophy or 2 this season. If not then we have no chance.

 

[Anonymous]

However, it is also fair to say that if Pellegrini doesn't sort out the defending then all the positives will continue to be undermined. Some of it is due to bad form and mistakes, which to an extent is difficult to blame the manager for but I don't think we look very organised at the back. It is way too easy to get in behind us, I wish we'd ditch this stepping up to play offside at every opportunity. We don't always concede doing it but we are giving away far too many chances due to it.

Personally I'd be more concerned if I felt we were genuinely too open, not organised, or compact enough. As it stands I think our major problem has been individual errors from senior players (Kompany, Zaba, Hart) which have cost us minimum of three/four points.

I think overall what you allude to regarding it being too easy to get in behind us is for me to true to the extent that it's easier to get in behind us now than it was at times under Mancini - however this is a risk top teams have to take. Whether it's Barca, Dortmund, Bayern, or even Ajax. They play possession football with a high defensive line and pressing high up the field. This will of course leave lots of grass to run into from a long ball. For years now I've watched Barcelona play and marvelled at how they look so slick but are often undone by the long ball over the top and a pacy forward.

That's not to say there aren't other ways of playing and being successful ... just that this is the way we've chosen to adopt as a club standard ...