Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[Skashion]

Welcome to the bickering bitchfest on Bluemoon. Fanfuckingtastic.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

It's not so much the high line that bothers me as such. It is more the stepping up to play offside, when the ball is in and around our box. I thought the sitter we gave away to Torres in the first half was a shambles, not following runners, not defending the ball in, just idly wandering out and hoping the opposition will be offside but worst of all not pressing the man playing the pass into the box. Similar situations for Villa's first goal, West Ham's goal and various other chances we have given away that I can't recall off the top of my head. Happy for us to press high up the field and have a high line but when the ball is near our box, I want us to just defend.

It's almost impossible to not give the opposition a single chance - particularly away from home. I take your point about certain errors against Chelsea for example - but then you also have to acknowledge that this was our fourth different combination of centre halves since the season started, and for MD it was his first game.

I think we all want the team to defend better as individuals, my point is that collectively ie. team shape, how compact we are, the spaces in between the back four and the midfield etc we are improving week in and week out. It's the individual mistakes and the ring rustiness of someone like MD against Chelsea which weaken us.

I know the opposition will have chances, I just want them to have to earn them rather than them get them because the defence are wandering out as the ball is played into a completely unmarked striker. Certainly if we are to persist with it then we need to get far more organised although I do completely accept the point that not being able to field the same two centre halves for more than a game or two is seriously not helping things. I was pleasantly surprised by MD on Sunday though, I'd heard some terrible things about him when we signed him. Obviously he was rusty and he didn't need to dive in on Torres before he hit the bar but you could tell he can defend and can play a bit. It was certainly a relief not to have Garcia at the back.

 

[sh249]

I am confident that the defensive problems are short-term but we do need a rapid improvement if we are to win the league this season. Probably the kiss of death for the poor guy but I have a sneaking suspicion that Demichelis is going to be our secret weapon in that regard.

I wish I was. I am not in anyway confident - even with Demichelis available and the change in formation for Sunday (though it certainly helped).
- The AMs and forward(s) do not press well enough. I haven't seen much improvement this all season.
- The AM's do not get behind the ball if they don't win the ball back in 6 seconds (I reckon this should be reduced to 3 or 4 in a higher tempo Prem game).
- The gap between the defensive line and the DMs is too big.
- YaYa is a pretty poor DM (he either gets too close to a player and is turned or doesn't get close enough). He does OK as the 1st AM to get back and help out mind.
- The defensive high line is an accident waiting to happen. It is a good 3 (I exaggerate with 5) yards further forward than under Mancini (just lob the ball over the top or pass the ball down the channels seemingly).
- Far, far, far too many free kicks given away within 25 yards of goal.
- Our full backs have huge problems (even Zaba is struggling a bit).

In fact I'd go as far as to say it is a shambles on occasion. It is an accident looking for a place to happen.
It wasn't great against Chelsea either. Look at the quality of the chances Chelsea had in the first half. Even though we bossed possession they could have been 3-0 up and should have been 2-0 up at half time. It is nearly as bad as under Hughesless.

From best Prem defence to 11th best Prem defence away from home in 5 months is shocking.

The only thing that has improved is the man marking -even there Pellegrini has reverted to at least 50% zonal marking in case someone messes up. (Thank goodness because what we had at Cardiff was suicidal).

-

In the earlier games (esp. Cardiff, Hull, Stoke), I'd agree that the space between the defence and midfield was too big, but that was precisely because we didn't play an especially high defensive line in those games. In the matches since, the gap has been much tighter, and teams haven't been able to play as much in those areas - Chelsea's much-vaunted attacking midfielders, for example, didn't really hurt us at all.

Were we now to play a deeper line, then the gap would open up again, unless the midfielders began to sit deeper. We may then become more solid, but the pay-off would be that we would lose cohesion between midfield and attack - it's no coincidence that our attacking play has been better in the games in which we have pressed higher up the pitch. It's all of a piece: to expect us to go back to defending deeper, while still maintaining our current attacking form is unrealistic - to play the type of game Pellegrini wants us to play, we have to be prepared to press high up the pitch. There's obviously still teething problems (one of which is, as you say, the fact that the strikers don't quite press well enough yet), but I think the signs are promising. And I don't think the playing of a high line has, in and of itself, really led directly to many goals this season - the only two that have come from balls over the top (as far as I recall) have been at Villa and Chelsea, and they were horrific mistakes, not slip ups bred by lack of familiarity, uncertainty, understanding of systems, but rank howlers by players who should never make that kind of error - anyone playing on Hough End on a Sunday morning would be shamefaced if they fucked up in the way Hart, Nastasic and Kompany contrived to do in those matches.

 

[Anonymous]

I was pleasantly surprised by MD on Sunday though, I'd heard some terrible things about him when we signed him. Obviously he was rusty and he didn't need to dive in on Torres before he hit the bar but you could tell he can defend and can play a bit. It was certainly a relief not to have Garcia at the back.

Time will tell with MD ... he was in the La Liga team of the season last season I believe, and he certainly knows Pellegrini and his methods so you'd expect him to not be an unmitigated disaster!

I said this yesterday but this season, this thread, would look and feel so different if not for Vinny's fuck up at Villa and Joe's against Chelsea.

 

[supercity88]

Is it possible to just be a supporter of the club rather than the manager??!

I was not a Mancini outer, he is the greatest manager the club has had in my lifetime and he brought us success in fantastic ways. I think he struggled to adapt to changing financial pressures, both him and the club failed in securing Plan A targets but Plan B was rushed and ridiculous. Either way rather than moan about it he should have just got on with things. That was unprofessional considering the club had done everything for him previously.

I think he also struggled with the Plan B, we were one dimensional. Although Hazard may have altered that. Anyway I still supported him to the hilt, every manager has their faults and his tactical brilliance and ability to protect players in the run in with the league winning season was brilliant.

Anyway he has gone and as shocked and surprised I was, and how disappointed I was in the manner in which the club dealt with it, he has moved on and so have we. I must say the faith I have in things is largely down to Sorriano and Txiki, I believe they have the correct outlook and ambition for this club. Mourinho for me would have been Mancini MachII. He may have had more success but he has the same philosophy and causes the same friction within clubs. Chelsea may have their King back but in a few years they will then be left with the same bickering in house as last time. He is selfish and is all about his CV rather than his players.

I must say whilst results have disappointed I am patient. I have had to be over the years. This is City after all. Pellegrini is the right man to implement a strong philosophy of how to play football. He has achieved success, even if it has not secured endless trophies, he has won things and achieved things at lesser sides. He would have worked wonders at Real if he had not been undermined. He will work wonders with City. He has a philosophy that City fans share and handles things very professionally. It is all in house and he manages players well. All the positive comments that you hear about him must say something about his ability. It is too early to speculate as to how much better we are than under Mancini. But in my opinion and of course it is only opinion, Pellegrini has the ability to make us a far better side for a longer period than Mancini did. I do not think Mancini would have wanted to stay if he had to continue to abandon signing the very best players. As critical as that sounds I still rate the man very highly and adore him for what he did with the club. Given time we will see Pellegrini deliver success at City. I believe it will be De Niro and the like that will be shocked in a few years time.

 

[taconinja]

Welcome to the bickering bitchfest on Bluemoon. Fanfuckingtastic.

I would consider making a drinking game out of this place but I value having a functioning liver.

 

[Anonymous]

Welcome to the bickering bitchfest on Bluemoon. Fanfuckingtastic.

I would consider making a drinking game out of this place but I value having a functioning liver.

Hahaha. That's good!

Really I think it's not that bad. Certainly not like it was last season. There's always been an element of pantomime to these discussions and I don't think it's any different with Pellegrini. For the most part we can all pick at each other without crossing the line into wanton abuse - although I must admit with one or two I find it hard ... ;)

Do we all want what's best for City? Yes we do and I think as long as that's the starting point, we'll survive this thread just as most of us survived the Mancini ones, and the Hughes ones before that, and the Sven ones before that.

 

[supercity88]

I was pleasantly surprised by MD on Sunday though, I'd heard some terrible things about him when we signed him. Obviously he was rusty and he didn't need to dive in on Torres before he hit the bar but you could tell he can defend and can play a bit. It was certainly a relief not to have Garcia at the back.

Time will tell with MD ... he was in the La Liga team of the season last season I believe, and he certainly knows Pellegrini and his methods so you'd expect him to not be an unmitigated disaster!

I said this yesterday but this season, this thread, would look and feel so different if not for Vinny's fuck up at Villa and Joe's against Chelsea.

Spot on! I remember the key week with the away trip to Plzen, the derby and then Wigan in the cup. That followed a poor performance away at Stoke. That was make or break for many with Pellegrini. We won all 3. Everyone was very impressed. It is all doom and gloom again now. Despite a fantastic away performance where everything but the result was positive. The trouble is City fans are loyal and their loyalty lies with Mancini, indeed mine did and I still remain disappointed in how he was treated. But I have taken time to assess Pellegrini and believe the club had to make that decision. Just not in the manner in which they did.

 

[Anonymous]

Spot on!

Me and you are gonna have to get a room soon mate ? :)

 

[Bluesiam]

Good debate this.

Let's not forget the rags handed the League to us on a platter (after we lost it before that) by losing at Wigan and allowing Everton to come back from 4-2 at home. Forget about that amazing finale, all this talk about Mancini's great contribution would not exist if United could have defended a 2 goal lead for 15 mins. or whatever it was.
In short, had we won only the FA Cup under Mancini, my guess is most on here would not be wearing 'emotionally tinted Mancini coloured' glasses and have a different view on Pellegrini's early steps.