Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[TGR]

being able to stand toe to toe with the best the league has to offer and looking as good if not better

Ah yeah but the fact is Joe Hart made a blunder and we lost the match .... so that's one in favour of the "we're going nowhere under the Chilean David Moyes" brigade.

not everyone can be as knowledgeable on football matter as we two billy, its a sad fact 8-)

Yes those pundits on SKY TV really do give the non match going, armchair fans a very detailed insight to the game I have to agree.

 

[supercity88]

Sorry, I'm not having this. We've lost against two no-hopers who've each won one home game all season. We've gifted Chelsea 3 points on a platter. We've produced comedy defending that your average school kid would be red faced about. We've been absolutely schooled by Munich whilst the manager played with his ring for 70 minutes. The only bright side is that we've been handed an easier Champs League group so it looks like we'll qualify.[/quote]


Yes and that platter was served up by a player, the manager got the game spot on up to then. We have produced comedy defending. Funny though that comparatively we have a many as Mancini got against the equivalent last season. Same points. The same. Same. More goals scored, more conceded. Same points.

Madrid battered us, Dortmund battered us, Ajax battered us. Bayern battered us, we have beaten CSKA and Plzen. We are through the League Cup where as we were out by now last season.

All we can do is work with what is in front of us. Yes I too am disappointed with results so far. But factually we are overall doing as good in the league as Mancini and better in Europe. If we improve in the remaining games then we will do well. For all that see doom and gloom because of league performances then you are not seeing the bigger picture. Like I say last season had we played the teams we have so far we would be on the exact same points at best. I am sure Pellegrini will eradicate mistakes by changing players. I am sure he will get us sorted out defensively. When the consistency comes we will be in a position to better the rest of our results. It was not going to be a magic transition from last season to this one. But we are still on course for an improvement.

 

[Prestwich_Blue]

I swore to keep out of the Mancini in/out debate and I'm not getting involved in his personal failings, merits or dishing any dirt but the simple fact is that he himself made his own position untenable. The core of the problem is that he did not want to work within the long-term system the owners had decided on.

The bare facts are these:

Before last season's home game against Newcastle, he told the chairman things were intolerable and he couldn't work with Soriano & Begiristain (or words to that effect).

He was told to go out to Abu Dhabi, which he did the next day. He spent two days there, talking to Simon Pearce and quite possibly Sheikh Mansour himself. He basically said they would have to choose between him and the Spaniards. They chose the latter and the formal board meeting to ratify the decision to dismiss him took place at the end of that week, just before the Derby at the swamp.

So whether he's a better manager than Pellegrini is not the central issue. In some ways he certainly is and he gave me some of the best days of my City supporting life but he got the same response that Mark Hughes did when he told the owner to back him or sack him. He was asking them to abandon their long term plan for the club in favour of someone who (for reasons I'm not going to go into) they didn't have 100% trust in. So by all means talk about Pellegrini 's strengths and weaknesses. By all means compare the way his teams play to the way we played under Mancini.

But I don't believe the question of whether we were right or wrong to sack Mancini is relevant to this debate as football reasons were only a very minor part of that decision. The context was entirely different. In fact you can compare it to Garry Cook's sacking in many ways. Whether he was the best CEO we've had or a gaffe-prone buffoon is largely irrelevant. He was sacked because he lied publicly about an email he'd mistakenly sent.

 

[Anonymous]

He was sacked because he lied publicly about an email he'd mistakenly sent.

It's not easy to get sacked by Khaldoon/Mansour. They are loyal and patient men who give the people they employ every opportunity to do their jobs to their best of their ability. Some would say a position has to become totally untenable as per Garry Cook before they will pull the trigger.

 

[PragueBlue]

The only bright side is that we've been handed an easier Champs League group so it looks like we'll qualify.

Really? The only bright side?

Hahahahaha. Personally I'm going with our impeccable home record, our best players rediscovering their best form, our attacking play becoming more consistent ... oh and, the almost obligatory slapping of the rags. Plenty of bright sides if you ask me ... ;)

You delightfully manage to pick out our home form and improved performances of certain players and better attacking play, while cunningly avoiding mention of our away from, the marked deterioration in the performances of some of our players and poor defending.

So there are both positives and negatives. Ultimately he'll be judged on our final league position and how we do in the Champs League. I think he's doing ok but I'm not convinced we'll win major trophies with him at the helm.

 

[Anonymous]

The only bright side is that we've been handed an easier Champs League group so it looks like we'll qualify.

Really? The only bright side?

Hahahahaha. Personally I'm going with our impeccable home record, our best players rediscovering their best form, our attacking play becoming more consistent ... oh and, the almost obligatory slapping of the rags. Plenty of bright sides if you ask me ... ;)

You delightfully manage to pick out our home form and improved performances of certain players and better attacking play, while cunningly avoiding mention of our away from, the marked deterioration in the performances of some of our players and poor defending.

So there are both positives and negatives. Ultimately he'll be judged on our final league position and how we do in the Champs League. I think he's doing ok but I'm not convinced we'll win major trophies with him at the helm.

What a surprise to find another rabid Mancini inner falling over themselves to tell us how underwhelmed they are by Pellegrini ... carry on it's really very very funny.

:)

 

[supercity88]

The trouble was because of our quick rise to the top many of the players in and around the squad had a superiority complex. Mancini tried to tell players he was boss, he tried to make the club more important than them. But he was dealing with a club still implementing changes at the top down and unfortunately despite what many deluded people on this forum believe we were not good enough to drop our key players and maintain high performance and good results. So the players were in fact crucial and causing problems with them was undermining results. It is not like Fergiescum who could kick Stam out and Beckham out and replace them because they are the rags. The fact is we did not have that strength in depth or mentality so he needed to give in to players. Which is exactly why Tevez returned.

As good as City were in the start and end of the title winning season, we only won on goal difference. We had periods of inconsistency and we were not suddenly this world class team people seemed to think we were. We didn't make good transfers following that window (aside from Nastasic) and we didn't progress. For those that look at the start of the 2011/12 season only then they are deluding themselves. Our Champions League results have proven that we are not there yet. We can win the league this season because most English teams are under some form of transition. If we were going into this season with fergiescum still at the rags, and Mourinho being at Chelsea for a couple of years we would have no chance. For me this is a transitional year where we can begin our ascent to the top. We were and are a good side, with the additions this summer and a full season under Pellegrini we can become a great one.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

However, it is also fair to say that if Pellegrini doesn't sort out the defending then all the positives will continue to be undermined. Some of it is due to bad form and mistakes, which to an extent is difficult to blame the manager for but I don't think we look very organised at the back. It is way too easy to get in behind us, I wish we'd ditch this stepping up to play offside at every opportunity. We don't always concede doing it but we are giving away far too many chances due to it.

Personally I'd be more concerned if I felt we were genuinely too open, not organised, or compact enough. As it stands I think our major problem has been individual errors from senior players (Kompany, Zaba, Hart) which have cost us minimum of three/four points.

I think overall what you allude to regarding it being too easy to get in behind us is for me to true to the extent that it's easier to get in behind us now than it was at times under Mancini - however this is a risk top teams have to take. Whether it's Barca, Dortmund, Bayern, or even Ajax. They play possession football with a high defensive line and pressing high up the field. This will of course leave lots of grass to run into from a long ball. For years now I've watched Barcelona play and marvelled at how they look so slick but are often undone by the long ball over the top and a pacy forward.

That's not to say there aren't other ways of playing and being successful ... just that this is the way we've chosen to adopt as a club standard ...

It's not so much the high line that bothers me as such. It is more the stepping up to play offside, when the ball is in and around our box. I thought the sitter we gave away to Torres in the first half was a shambles, not following runners, not defending the ball in, just idly wandering out and hoping the opposition will be offside but worst of all not pressing the man playing the pass into the box. Similar situations for Villa's first goal, West Ham's goal and various other chances we have given away that I can't recall off the top of my head. Happy for us to press high up the field and have a high line but when the ball is near our box, I want us to just defend.

 

[Anonymous]

It's not so much the high line that bothers me as such. It is more the stepping up to play offside, when the ball is in and around our box. I thought the sitter we gave away to Torres in the first half was a shambles, not following runners, not defending the ball in, just idly wandering out and hoping the opposition will be offside but worst of all not pressing the man playing the pass into the box. Similar situations for Villa's first goal, West Ham's goal and various other chances we have given away that I can't recall off the top of my head. Happy for us to press high up the field and have a high line but when the ball is near our box, I want us to just defend.

It's almost impossible to not give the opposition a single chance - particularly away from home. I take your point about certain errors against Chelsea for example - but then you also have to acknowledge that this was our fourth different combination of centre halves since the season started, and for MD it was his first game.

I think we all want the team to defend better as individuals, my point is that collectively ie. team shape, how compact we are, the spaces in between the back four and the midfield etc we are improving week in and week out. It's the individual mistakes and the ring rustiness of someone like MD against Chelsea which weaken us.

 

[PragueBlue]

Really? The only bright side?

Hahahahaha. Personally I'm going with our impeccable home record, our best players rediscovering their best form, our attacking play becoming more consistent ... oh and, the almost obligatory slapping of the rags. Plenty of bright sides if you ask me ... ;)

You delightfully manage to pick out our home form and improved performances of certain players and better attacking play, while cunningly avoiding mention of our away from, the marked deterioration in the performances of some of our players and poor defending.

So there are both positives and negatives. Ultimately he'll be judged on our final league position and how we do in the Champs League. I think he's doing ok but I'm not convinced we'll win major trophies with him at the helm.

What a surprise to find another rabid Mancini inner falling over themselves to tell us how underwhelmed they are by Pellegrini ... carry on it's really very very funny.

:)

Almost as amusing as finding the rabid Mancini outers falling over themselves to tell us how magnificently our Chilean maestro is doing (presumably while not looking at the league table).

;-)

As I said there are both positives and negatives to be found. I hope he can iron out the problems and get us up the league table.