Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[BufordUSABlue]

Hahaha. I can smell the bitter from here. " he 'll never win as much as our Bob did".

Tragically comical from the resident dumb dumbs.

Fancy a bet?

What exactly has Peller's done to you DN, you seem intent on not giving the guy a chance? Given time (and that's a big ask I know) I really believe that this guy will take us forward as a club and be a very successful manager of our great club. I certainly think he is a much better choice than our delusional neighbors have made!

Time will tell - so the least we can do is give him (And any future manager) exactly that.

Not knocking Bobby in anyway, as I was a fan of his, mainly because he brought us some badly needed success after all the years in the wilderness...

 

[Skashion]

I'm confused. I'm an outer and I'm getting worried that Pellegrini might not be able to organise a defense.

I'm an inner and think Mancini was hated.

 

[supercity88]

Hahaha. That's good!

Really I think it's not that bad. Certainly not like it was last season. There's always been an element of pantomime to these discussions and I don't think it's any different with Pellegrini. For the most part we can all pick at each other without crossing the line into wanton abuse - although I must admit with one or two I find it hard ... ;)

Do we all want what's best for City? Yes we do and I think as long as that's the starting point, we'll survive this thread just as most of us survived the Mancini ones, and the Hughes ones before that, and the Sven ones before that.

Don't you think this place would be better if we could reach an accord not to unduly be dismissive of Mancini or Pellegrini, and just talk about our club's positives, negatives and how we think we can improve, rather than the back and forth which is still happening far too often. It just seems like Parliament with a yah-boo mentality. Inners: Pellegrini can't organise a defence and doesn't have any trophy winning credentials. Outers: Mancini was hated and too defensive. Yah-boo, yah-boo.

I'm confused. I'm an outer and I'm getting worried that Pellegrini might not be able to organise a defense.

If you are able to take a look at Pellegrini's previous teams defensive performance in comparison to what they did prior to his arrival. He made Villareal, Real Madrid and Malaga better defensively immediately as well as score more. He is not an idiot. He is an advocate of high pressing to force opponents off the ball. We know from his time with Malaga last season in the Champions League he used a solid 4-5-1 away and then adapted to a 4-3-3 at home for more fluidity. We saw at the game at Stamford Bridge he uses a tighter formation to protect his back 4 - a back 4 that had never played together previously. Do not worry about his ability to organise a defence. The difference is that he uses a different method of defending to Mancini and that takes some adapting to.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

Don't you think this place would be better if we could reach an accord not to unduly be dismissive of Mancini or Pellegrini, and just talk about our club's positives, negatives and how we think we can improve, rather than the back and forth which is still happening far too often. It just seems like Parliament with a yah-boo mentality. Inners: Pellegrini can't organise a defence and doesn't have any trophy winning credentials. Outers: Mancini was hated and too defensive. Yah-boo, yah-boo.

I'm confused. I'm an outer and I'm getting worried that Pellegrini might not be able to organise a defense.

If you are able to take a look at Pellegrini's previous teams defensive performance in comparison to what they did prior to his arrival. He made Villareal, Real Madrid and Malaga better defensively immediately as well as score more. He is not an idiot. He is an advocate of high pressing to force opponents off the ball. We know from his time with Malaga last season in the Champions League he used a solid 4-5-1 away and then adapted to a 4-3-3 at home for more fluidity. We saw at the game at Stamford Bridge he uses a tighter formation to protect his back 4 - a back 4 that had never played together previously. Do not worry about his ability to organise a defence. The difference is that he uses a different method of defending to Mancini and that takes some adapting to.

I hope you're right. Obviously I know he needs time and I'm very happy with various other aspects of our play. We could do with learning his ways quickly though, there seem to be plenty of people itching for him to fail

 

[Bluesiam]

Good debate this.

Let's not forget the rags handed the League to us on a platter (after we lost it before that) by losing at Wigan and allowing Everton to come back from 4-2 at home. Forget about that amazing finale, all this talk about Mancini's great contribution would not exist if United could have defended a 2 goal lead for 15 mins. or whatever it was.
In short, had we won only the FA Cup under Mancini, my guess is most on here would not be wearing 'emotionally tinted Mancini coloured' glasses and have a different view on Pellegrini's early steps.

We got 89 points. 89 points is a title-winning amount of points. The only time in English top flight football history when 89 points (3 points for a win adjusted) didn't win it is the 11/12 season. Mancini did not get lucky. He would have been ridiculously unlucky not to win it with 89 points.

The rags didn't win it a year or two earlier with 89 points when Chelsea won. Also, there was a chasm between the top few clubs and the rest ... there was a huge mid table which meant more easy points than usual.
Having said all that, the bottom line is that we let a title winning opportunity slip out of our grasp and were in a situation where it was out of our control. As well as we did to beat the rags and Newcastle to get back into it, had United held on to beat Everton, they would have won the League and Mancini WOULD have been a lesser God. That's my point.

 

[supercity88]

Good debate this.

Let's not forget the rags handed the League to us on a platter (after we lost it before that) by losing at Wigan and allowing Everton to come back from 4-2 at home. Forget about that amazing finale, all this talk about Mancini's great contribution would not exist if United could have defended a 2 goal lead for 15 mins. or whatever it was.
In short, had we won only the FA Cup under Mancini, my guess is most on here would not be wearing 'emotionally tinted Mancini coloured' glasses and have a different view on Pellegrini's early steps.

We got 89 points. 89 points is a title-winning amount of points. The only time in English top flight football history when 89 points (3 points for a win adjusted) didn't win it is the 11/12 season. Mancini did not get lucky. He would have been ridiculously unlucky not to win it with 89 points.

The rags didn't win it a year or two earlier with 89 points when Chelsea won. Also, there was a chasm between the top few clubs and the rest ... there was a huge mid table which meant more easy points than usual.
Having said all that, the bottom line is that we let a title winning opportunity slip out of our grasp and were in a situation where it was out of our control. As well as we did to beat the rags and Newcastle to get back into it, had United held on to beat Everton, they would have won the League and Mancini WOULD have been a lesser God. That's my point.

Yes and when they didn't that was the exception! We had a dip in form which still led to us getting 89pts. We would have been unfortunate and unlucky not to win considering. Let it go. Mancini won us the title and that cannot be questioned.

 

[Anonymous]

Hahaha. I can smell the bitter from here. " he 'll never win as much as our Bob did".

Tragically comical from the resident dumb dumbs.

Fancy a bet?

Yes. I bet you a public "I'm sorry I was wrong and you were right" that Pellegrini will in 3.5 seasons in charge have won two trophies. In fact, personally I think he'll win more than that. But still we'll go with the two Bobby won as a starting point - which it should be. We have the best squad in the league and one of the best managers in Europe.

 

[Skashion]

The rags didn't win it a year or two earlier with 89 points when Chelsea won. Also, there was a chasm between the top few clubs and the rest ... there was a huge mid table which meant more easy points than usual.
Having said all that, the bottom line is that we let a title winning opportunity slip out of our grasp and were in a situation where it was out of our control. As well as we did to beat the rags and Newcastle to get back into it, had United held on to beat Everton, they would have won the League and Mancini WOULD have been a lesser God. That's my point.

That'll be because that never happened... Chelsea won it with 86 versus 85 for the rags... You don't have a point. When the points are dropped is incidental. Points get dropped. We dropped stupid points. So did they. We got 89 points, a total that has only failed to win the title once since 1888. It wasn't luck. We were also the best team. Most goals scored, least conceded. Trying to rob Mancini of credit for it by claiming he got lucky is beyond pathetic.

 

[Anonymous]

I've said it about Bob and I'll say it about Pellers, let's judge it all at the end if the season. Sometimes it is immediately obvious that a manager is way out of his depth (see Leslie) however it is clear Pellers is anything but. Imho, we should recognise the transition the club is making may well take time and we should steel ourselves to the fact there is always a chance we may win nought this season.

Of course I'm concerned about the fragility of the defence and lack of trusted cover, but we can do nothing about it until January.

As for Joe, don't forget Platt stated they were looking at bringing in Begovic to give him some competition, which makes you wonder if they had spotted something a lot earlier than we did. That said, I still believe Joe is a very good goalkeeper. All players go through a bad spot and I trust Joe will learn from this and come out the other side an even better keeper than before.

 

[BobKowalski]

I'm confused. I'm an outer and I'm getting worried that Pellegrini might not be able to organise a defense.

I'm an inner and think Mancini was hated.

True. Mancini was hated/disliked/whatever pretty much from the off. If the players had been given any encouragement they would have led a rebellion after 3 months let alone 3 years but they weren't and the rest is history as they say. The players were only finally 'indulged' because it was politically expedient. Personally I think the board made several errors in their handling of the situation. The first was not been honest. Ferran & Txiki were brought in to run the club with Roberto thinking he should run the club. That was never going to work (even if I did hold a faint hope that everyone might be able to work together) so someone had to go and it was never going to be Ferran & Txiki. To be absolutely honest if I was Khaldoon I would choose Ferran & Txiki over Roberto to run the club. We do have a long term plan/vision whatever you want to call it and everyone is either working together on this or they are out.

The second mistake was linking it to 'this is what the players want' as it does send out a message of the tail wagging the dog (even if in my opinion the board used this excuse as a way of avoiding fall out from the fans). We did compound this mistake with the PR blitz on Mancini and his tyrannical ways and how everyone is much happier, training is much better, pre season is awesome, the sun is always shining yada, yada which is great if after 9 games you are sitting on top of the PL table with those below trembling in fear. When you are 7th and 2 points behind Southampton people get a bit cynical.<br /><br />-- Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:02 pm --<br /><br />

Of course I'm concerned about the fragility of the defence and lack of trusted cover, but we can do nothing about it until January.

But we can do something about it. We can work on it in training. And keep working on it until we can do it in our sleep. Then you will start to see a reduction in unforced errors. That was Hughes mistake. Defence is leaking goals. Buy new defenders. Still leaking. Buy some different ones. If there is one thing Mancini did demonstrate is that you can take the same group of players and make them better defensively.