Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

[moomba]

I agree ... it's why I think dropping him is the wrong call. Lets say Pants plays really well. What then? England's number 1 on the bench for more than a week or two is going to turn into the kind of hoopla we really don't need.

FWIW i don't think it'll be a problem amongst the squad and in the dressing room. Joe's a big boy and he will know that his form has dictated his dropping, as will the rest of the players.

I don't think it will cause problems either, you can justify the decision on football grounds. But it's hard with keepers and I think it will be hard to Hart to come back from this at the club.

 

[bluemoonmatt]

Expect bids in January from all the top clubs for joe hart, he will not want to stay here now if we aren't backing him

I just hope the boss realises after all the changes he is making there will be fewer places for him to hide. We got there in the end after a very very dull display against Newcastle. People will now be looking at him, his tactics and coaching staff if the performances and results don't drastically improve. I hope we don't lose joe and then realise how foolish we have been. remember how empires fall

If Joe reacts to this in the way you suggest then he can quite frankly fuck off. He is a big boy and if he is seriously blind to why he's dropped then there is no place for him for me. We plucked him from Shrewsbury and made him what he is, I think he'll take this on the chin work hard and get back in the team, and that is exactly what we want. If he throws his toys out of the pram and goes on a sulkfest then perhaps he's not the player OR MAN I think he is.

 

[BluessinceHydeRoad]

Bluesincehyderoad.

1. In my opinion it is early days. The league has not taken full shape yet. The games are important yes, of course, but in terms of Pellegrini's City spell, we are very much in the early days.

2. Pellegrini never promised high risk did he? Attacking flowing football yes. But I don't remember risk being involved.

3. I will not talk about the cup games. Newcastle was a second string and for all the errors we kept a clean sheet. We lost 4-2 at home to Villa under Mancini but I would not let that influence my opinion that he had organised a brilliant defence.

4. You clearly do not like the high pressing and high line way of defending. But I am afraid the 4 best teams in Europe play that way. We were so slow on the ball last year whilst Real harrassed us, Dortmund waltzed through us and Ajax pressured us all over the field. We have to move with the times and high pressing is the modern way. It limits the opposition to playing long balls unless they can keep the ball under pressure. And those long balls are often hopeless and end up with giving the ball back. Individual errors are the reason they havent. Away at Cardiff we messed up from corners but they didnt have many other chances, against Villa similarly individual errors ruined a good performance. If you are restricting the amount of chances the opposition have then you will not concede many. Remove the mistakes and we will keep clean sheets. Chelsea at Stamford Bridge is one of the toughest away games there is, Mourinho didnt lose a home game in the league with Chelsea. We limited a quality side to a few chances and messed up at the end.

The stage of the season and its earliness raises questions which are important. There was an acceptance when Pellegrini was appointed that he "needed time" to get the team playing his way. No-one at the club explained at all the time scale envisaged, because they never discuss such matters. Fans do and most fans are clearly uneasy at the very least, especially about our defending. From confident statements that a full preseason enabling us to walk away with the PL, we moved to hearing that it would take a few games to iron out the problems, then it was 10-12 games before we got a "clearer picture", now it's, for some, a problem which can only be solved in the transfer windows, and several at that! Those who admire Pellegrini, or simply feel they must defend him because they are glad Mancini has gone, simply extend the duration of the transition. But I feel there are fundamental flaws in the tactics City are adopting and there's no sign we are coping any better than we did in August. And we cannot just sit back and writ a season off as "transition". The top 3 is the minimum.

The man who promised high risk football was Vinnie Kompany, and it appears more like an eerie prophesy now than a thrilling promise.

I have also confined my comments overwhelmingly to PL matches. I know Newcastle was a second string, but the team cost £150 million, which makes it second string to City, and possibly Chelsea, but to no other English club! A back 5 of Pants, Micah/Zab, Lescott, Boyatta and Kolarov would walk into most PL first teams, and I think the assertions that our defenders aren't any good (I'm not accusing you of saying that!) is nonsense. And yet the same structural failings were there on Wednesday. We've seen them at home as well as away. The manager has to deal with them. And I make my comments without any reference to Mancini. I am judging what I see now, and I see problems. We lost matches under Mancini, we played badly in some games under Mancini, but I'm concerned only about this season at the moment. My concern is how we are playing now, not to defend Mancini or Pearce or Clarke or anyone.

I presume that the four best teams in the world to which you refer are Bayern, Barca, Dortmund and Real? I wouldn't disagree with that if those are the four you mean, and I agree that they play a high pressing, high line defence, but that's the point - they play it, we don't. If you play a high line you have to press and we don't. Those sides play one up front and often, as Bayern did, and as Barca did, none up front: we have been playing two front men. They pack the midfield: we've taken one out of midfield, so we have two CMs who are to get forward, and two wide men. They press the ball as a team: we become involved in stretched games where pressing the ball is actually difficult if not impossible, and we are nowhere near as compact as these sides. The result is that any long high ball doesn't have to be particularly accurate to give us real problems, especially late on. If you study the goals scored by Villa and Chelsea the play is very stretched and we have width but no depth. Now I'm fully aware of the games in the CL last season, and I'm aware that Mancini was blamed for being tactically naive. Barry, I was told as well, simply wasn't up to the calibre of midfielder needed in the CL. Pellegrini was appointed in part because he knew how to win matches in Europe. He's won two, which is nothing to complain about, but one was a minnow from the Czech republic, and in Moscow our defending nearly threw it away: it was shaky to say the least. In the other, at home, to a side of genuine quality, Pellegrini didn't show anything remotely resembling knowledge of how to win. He played the high line, but didn't press; he denuded midfield and kept his two forwards upfield starved of the ball. Then in the interview he all but said the players hadn't performed but that he wasn't going to change the way he played. But, of course, there were those who thought we should shut up moaning because we would only play Bayern once more this season!

I am disappointed with Pellegrini so far, I hope he gets things sorted but I simply cannot be soothed by assertions that it'll soon be OK, he's a nice bloke and he did wonderful things at Malaga.

 

[Anonymous]

I agree ... it's why I think dropping him is the wrong call. Lets say Pants plays really well. What then? England's number 1 on the bench for more than a week or two is going to turn into the kind of hoopla we really don't need.

FWIW i don't think it'll be a problem amongst the squad and in the dressing room. Joe's a big boy and he will know that his form has dictated his dropping, as will the rest of the players.

I don't think it will cause problems either, you can justify the decision on football grounds. But it's hard with keepers and I think it will be hard to Hart to come back from this at the club.

I think much depends upon what Pellegrini and his coaches are privately saying to Joe. I suspect that at the very least they will be talking to him and encouraging him to get back to his best. The rest is up to him ...

 

[bobmcfc]

Expect bids in January from all the top clubs for joe hart, he will not want to stay here now if we aren't backing him

I just hope the boss realises after all the changes he is making there will be fewer places for him to hide. We got there in the end after a very very dull display against Newcastle. People will now be looking at him, his tactics and coaching staff if the performances and results don't drastically improve. I hope we don't lose joe and then realise how foolish we have been. remember how empires fall

If Joe reacts to this in the way you suggest then he can quite frankly fuck off. He is a big boy and if he is seriously blind to why he's dropped then there is no place for him for me. We plucked him from Shrewsbury and made him what he is, I think he'll take this on the chin work hard and get back in the team, and that is exactly what we want. If he throws his toys out of the pram and goes on a sulkfest then perhaps he's not the player OR MAN I think he is.

With big clubs lining up to buy him and make him number one he won't want to sit on our bench. World Cup is coming and he won't want to be out of the side. I hope he fights but reality tells a slightly different tale

 

[Anonymous]

Expect bids in January from all the top clubs for joe hart, he will not want to stay here now if we aren't backing him

I just hope the boss realises after all the changes he is making there will be fewer places for him to hide. We got there in the end after a very very dull display against Newcastle. People will now be looking at him, his tactics and coaching staff if the performances and results don't drastically improve. I hope we don't lose joe and then realise how foolish we have been. remember how empires fall

If Joe reacts to this in the way you suggest then he can quite frankly fuck off. He is a big boy and if he is seriously blind to why he's dropped then there is no place for him for me. We plucked him from Shrewsbury and made him what he is, I think he'll take this on the chin work hard and get back in the team, and that is exactly what we want. If he throws his toys out of the pram and goes on a sulkfest then perhaps he's not the player OR MAN I think he is.

With big clubs lining up to buy him and make him number one he won't want to sit on our bench. World Cup is coming and he won't want to be out of the side. I hope he fights but reality tells a slightly different tale

Which big clubs?

 

[bobmcfc]

Expect bids in January from all the top clubs for joe hart, he will not want to stay here now if we aren't backing him

Hmmm ... I see what you're trying to do but you are WAY wide of the mark. To begin with, which top clubs in Europe need a keeper? After you've figured that out tell me which one of them is likely to bid for Hart, someone who's been dropped by City because of his poor form over a longish period of time.

Hart's going nowhere and more importantly, he won't want to go anywhere unless City actually go out and sign an out and out replacement for him first. That kind of call won't be made until the summer.

I think Chelsea would be more than willing to take him. I'm thinking from joes point of view with a World Cup approaching. I hope Roy plays him if he's not in the side but I'm not sure that can be guaranteed

 

[Anonymous]

Expect bids in January from all the top clubs for joe hart, he will not want to stay here now if we aren't backing him

Hmmm ... I see what you're trying to do but you are WAY wide of the mark. To begin with, which top clubs in Europe need a keeper? After you've figured that out tell me which one of them is likely to bid for Hart, someone who's been dropped by City because of his poor form over a longish period of time.

Hart's going nowhere and more importantly, he won't want to go anywhere unless City actually go out and sign an out and out replacement for him first. That kind of call won't be made until the summer.

I think Chelsea would be more than willing to take him. I'm thinking from joes point of view with a World Cup approaching. I hope Roy plays him if he's not in the side but I'm not sure that can be guaranteed

Chelsea have Courtois ready to replace Cech. Which other big clubs will come for him?

 

[bluemoonmatt]

Expect bids in January from all the top clubs for joe hart, he will not want to stay here now if we aren't backing him

I just hope the boss realises after all the changes he is making there will be fewer places for him to hide. We got there in the end after a very very dull display against Newcastle. People will now be looking at him, his tactics and coaching staff if the performances and results don't drastically improve. I hope we don't lose joe and then realise how foolish we have been. remember how empires fall

If Joe reacts to this in the way you suggest then he can quite frankly fuck off. He is a big boy and if he is seriously blind to why he's dropped then there is no place for him for me. We plucked him from Shrewsbury and made him what he is, I think he'll take this on the chin work hard and get back in the team, and that is exactly what we want. If he throws his toys out of the pram and goes on a sulkfest then perhaps he's not the player OR MAN I think he is.

With big clubs lining up to buy him and make him number one he won't want to sit on our bench. World Cup is coming and he won't want to be out of the side. I hope he fights but reality tells a slightly different tale

First of all to make any effect on the world cup such a move would have to happen in January we would only sell if we secure a Casillas or Nueur standard player. Secondly some "big club" would have to make a monumental call of their own to drop their own number 1 in order to sign Joe MID SEASON. Which big clubs by the way do you see "lining up" to sign him. It aint happening this season, perhaps in the summer but defo not till then. Finally if Joe does not react to this positively do you really want him at our club. In a previous post I openly state I love Joe, despite his clangers I still believe in him but for me this is the only decision and I repeat I believe Joe to have he right character to react to this in the right way.

 

[blueparrot]

Expect bids in January from all the top clubs for joe hart, he will not want to stay here now if we aren't backing him

I just hope the boss realises after all the changes he is making there will be fewer places for him to hide. We got there in the end after a very very dull display against Newcastle. People will now be looking at him, his tactics and coaching staff if the performances and results don't drastically improve. I hope we don't lose joe and then realise how foolish we have been. remember how empires fall

If Joe reacts to this in the way you suggest then he can quite frankly fuck off. He is a big boy and if he is seriously blind to why he's dropped then there is no place for him for me. We plucked him from Shrewsbury and made him what he is, I think he'll take this on the chin work hard and get back in the team, and that is exactly what we want. If he throws his toys out of the pram and goes on a sulkfest then perhaps he's not the player OR MAN I think he is.

With big clubs lining up to buy him and make him number one he won't want to sit on our bench. World Cup is coming and he won't want to be out of the side. I hope he fights but reality tells a slightly different tale

Not sure which big clubs would be lining up to buy him, at least not top English clubs as non of them are particularly weak at the moment for goalkeeepers.