Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 4)

[teddykgb]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

I heard an interview with Pellegrini before the season started outlining how we were going to play. I turned to my wife and said..."If we play like that we will win most home matches 3-0 and lose away 1-0"

I was joking because I didn't think Pele really meant we would play the same way at home that we do away. I'm not laughing now though.

We are very lucky that none of the top teams have pulled away but this shouldn't disguise a poor start to the season given the players we have.

I think Pele's tactics just might still come good away from home but its whether by that time its too late to catch the teams above us. Its just as likely that our home form will falter as our away form will improve.... given our relatively easy run of fixtures unfortunately.

Pele was choosen by City as the owners wanted to play exciting football so Pele has delivered that. What the owners now need to ask themselves is which is more important trophies or playing exciting football as, unless you are Barca, its very unlikely you can have both all the time.

Its a long term plan to have all our teams playing the same way. It might be genius. It might cost Pele his job because so far it really isn't working.

I find all this "setup away from home versus home" talk so weird....we've been setting up with 2 strikers, 4 midfielders, and 4 defenders home and away for a very long time now. I really, really, really don't want to ignite talk about this manager versus the previous manager. My much more basic point is that why are people so reticent about setting up with 2 strikers now?

Granted, our away form hasn't been great for a few years, either, and perhaps we should learn that lesson, but this is hardly new or anything unique to how Pellegrini has setup. This supposed high line is a mountain out of a molehill as well. When you have as much possession as we do, your defenders are pretty much always going to be playing a high line.

The way I see it, the only real tactical difference between how we're setup this year versus last has been the roles of Nasri and Silva. Last season they were frequently asked to come deep and/or wide to receive the ball, often forming short triangles with yaya and barry more centrally. This season they've tended to sit in the pockets behind the other team's central midfield a bit more, opening up some longer triangles and allowing us to bypass the center midfield a bit easier on occasion. This makes it more of a 4-2-2-2 than a 4-4-2, but we've had this excruciating debate too often on this forum already, these are nearly the same thing and hardly indicative of some major tactical shift the manager has got all wrong.

Now we play very high up the pitch an try to monopolise possession in the oponents half. Its great at home but away from home teams hang on for their lives and wait for the mistake or their opportunity to break. So far it has nearly always presented itself. There is a clear blueprint to beat us away.

Sure, but aside from randomness, why isn't this a blueprint to beat us at home? How is this any different from last season? We possessed the ball in the opponents half all last year, and I heard nary a word about how we were tactically setup for failure away.

I guess my most basic point is that correlation does not equal causality. Yes, we've conceded some horrific goals away from home. Given that we're setting up the same way, home and away, and we've setup that way for multiple seasons now, I'm not sure I'd chalk our awful away record up to some tactical change we're not making. Logically, it's almost assuredly "noise" in the data set. The problem is and always has been giving up shocking goals, I'm honestly not sure it matters where we give them up.

 

[blueparrot]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

I heard an interview with Pellegrini before the season started outlining how we were going to play. I turned to my wife and said..."If we play like that we will win most home matches 3-0 and lose away 1-0"

I was joking because I didn't think Pele really meant we would play the same way at home that we do away. I'm not laughing now though.

We are very lucky that none of the top teams have pulled away but this shouldn't disguise a poor start to the season given the players we have.

I think Pele's tactics just might still come good away from home but its whether by that time its too late to catch the teams above us. Its just as likely that our home form will falter as our away form will improve.... given our relatively easy run of fixtures unfortunately.

Pele was choosen by City as the owners wanted to play exciting football so Pele has delivered that. What the owners now need to ask themselves is which is more important trophies or playing exciting football as, unless you are Barca, its very unlikely you can have both all the time.

Its a long term plan to have all our teams playing the same way. It might be genius. It might cost Pele his job because so far it really isn't working.

I find all this "setup away from home versus home" talk so weird....we've been setting up with 2 strikers, 4 midfielders, and 4 defenders home and away for a very long time now. I really, really, really don't want to ignite talk about this manager versus the previous manager. My much more basic point is that why are people so reticent about setting up with 2 strikers now?

Granted, our away form hasn't been great for a few years, either, and perhaps we should learn that lesson, but this is hardly new or anything unique to how Pellegrini has setup. This supposed high line is a mountain out of a molehill as well. When you have as much possession as we do, your defenders are pretty much always going to be playing a high line.

The way I see it, the only real tactical difference between how we're setup this year versus last has been the roles of Nasri and Silva. Last season they were frequently asked to come deep and/or wide to receive the ball, often forming short triangles with yaya and barry more centrally. This season they've tended to sit in the pockets behind the other team's central midfield a bit more, opening up some longer triangles and allowing us to bypass the center midfield a bit easier on occasion. This makes it more of a 4-2-2-2 than a 4-4-2, but we've had this excruciating debate too often on this forum already, these are nearly the same thing and hardly indicative of some major tactical shift the manager has got all wrong.

Now we play very high up the pitch an try to monopolise possession in the oponents half. Its great at home but away from home teams hang on for their lives and wait for the mistake or their opportunity to break. So far it has nearly always presented itself. There is a clear blueprint to beat us away.

Tottenham and Southampton have the best two defences this year both play a high line, the differences with us are this is their 2nd season using it and also we haven't been able to use the same centre backs all season mainly due to injuries, I think I heard it was 7 different parings already. if we can get our best defenders playing the system regularly our results will improve.

 

[Blue2112]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

I think it was Graham Hunter who was on Talksport this morning (apparently he's there Spanish football expert) and Brazils sidekick today said to him that Pellegrini's results so far have gone under the radar and what was Hunter's thoughts on him so far. Hunter's a big fan of MP as I think he was his PR man at some point but he went on to say what a fantastic man manger and tactical expert he is, all the players love him, obviouslyhe wanted City to buy Isco but we wouldn't go the extra 7m then we wouldn't go the extra for Pepe at Real Madrid and so MP can rightly say he identified the problems but City didn't fully back him. He then went on to say that he expects MP to buy another defender in the transfer window and would not be surprised to see City go on to win the league. At that point Alan Brazil interupted him mid sentence to ask for his thoughts on the new Middlesbrough manager as I'm sure Brazil must have been gagging at the thought of City being lauded for the title on his morning show, and didn't want to upset 'Wee Davey' now.

 

[Corazondezaba]

Re: Clueless manager

Just back and still angry. Got to say that is the most inept display of management I have seen in a long time , this guy is fucking clueless. Need to score swap a right back ,jimmy out wide right with navas on bench and Garcia in the team. To completely change the back four for a game away from home with great results going into it is beyond belief. 3 hours on a coach and still not calmed down he is fucking useless

For me, the changes at full back were a cardinal sin. Keeping changes at the back to a minimum is day one stuff. A lot of people don't like Kolorov, for a squad, who can find a bit of form and add value after a few games (the Debry for example) I can live with him. In cold at a bogey side. Pellegrini didn't pull the file for this one.

 

[OB1]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

Tottenham and Southampton have the best two defences this year both play a high line, the differences with us are this is their 2nd season using it and also we haven't been able to use the same centre backs all season mainly due to injuries, I think I heard it was 7 different parings already. if we can get our best defenders playing the system regularly our results will improve.

And, funnily enough, as I keep parroting, Spurs and Saints are two of the three teams that are conceding the least shots at their goal. The other team, the team with the fewest shots conceded. is City.

I reiterate, if we finish the season as the team that has conceded fewest shots - as indeed we were last season - we will end up with a good enough defensive record to win the league because there is every chance that we will score the most goals.

 

[Cobwebcat]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

Tottenham and Southampton have the best two defences this year both play a high line, the differences with us are this is their 2nd season using it and also we haven't been able to use the same centre backs all season mainly due to injuries, I think I heard it was 7 different parings already. if we can get our best defenders playing the system regularly our results will improve.

And, funnily enough, as I keep parroting, Spurs and Saints are two of the three teams that are conceding the least shots at their goal. The other team, the team with the fewest shots conceded. is City.

I reiterate, if we finish the season as the team that has conceded fewest shots - as indeed we were last season - we will end up with a good enough defensive record to win the league because there is every chance that we will score the most goals.

We conceded fewest shots because once a team gets in front against us they know their best bet is to shut up shop rather than go for another. I dont think its just badluck though I hope you are right.

 

[blueparrot]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

Tottenham and Southampton have the best two defences this year both play a high line, the differences with us are this is their 2nd season using it and also we haven't been able to use the same centre backs all season mainly due to injuries, I think I heard it was 7 different parings already. if we can get our best defenders playing the system regularly our results will improve.

And, funnily enough, as I keep parroting, Spurs and Saints are two of the three teams that are conceding the least shots at their goal. The other team, the team with the fewest shots conceded. is City.

I reiterate, if we finish the season as the team that has conceded fewest shots - as indeed we were last season - we will end up with a good enough defensive record to win the league because there is every chance that we will score the most goals.

We conceded fewest shots because once a team gets in front against us they know their best bet is to shut up shop rather than go for another. I dont think its just badluck though I hope you are right.

Not really because apart from Sunderland our defeats have come from late goals against us, more likely due to concentration dropping as they get tired.

 

[Cobwebcat]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

I find all this "setup away from home versus home" talk so weird....we've been setting up with 2 strikers, 4 midfielders, and 4 defenders home and away for a very long time now. I really, really, really don't want to ignite talk about this manager versus the previous manager. My much more basic point is that why are people so reticent about setting up with 2 strikers now?

Granted, our away form hasn't been great for a few years, either, and perhaps we should learn that lesson, but this is hardly new or anything unique to how Pellegrini has setup. This supposed high line is a mountain out of a molehill as well. When you have as much possession as we do, your defenders are pretty much always going to be playing a high line.

The way I see it, the only real tactical difference between how we're setup this year versus last has been the roles of Nasri and Silva. Last season they were frequently asked to come deep and/or wide to receive the ball, often forming short triangles with yaya and barry more centrally. This season they've tended to sit in the pockets behind the other team's central midfield a bit more, opening up some longer triangles and allowing us to bypass the center midfield a bit easier on occasion. This makes it more of a 4-2-2-2 than a 4-4-2, but we've had this excruciating debate too often on this forum already, these are nearly the same thing and hardly indicative of some major tactical shift the manager has got all wrong.

Now we play very high up the pitch an try to monopolise possession in the oponents half. Its great at home but away from home teams hang on for their lives and wait for the mistake or their opportunity to break. So far it has nearly always presented itself. There is a clear blueprint to beat us away.

Sure, but aside from randomness, why isn't this a blueprint to beat us at home? How is this any different from last season? We possessed the ball in the opponents half all last year, and I heard nary a word about how we were tactically setup for failure away.

I guess my most basic point is that correlation does not equal causality. Yes, we've conceded some horrific goals away from home. Given that we're setting up the same way, home and away, and we've setup that way for multiple seasons now, I'm not sure I'd chalk our awful away record up to some tactical change we're not making. Logically, it's almost assuredly "noise" in the data set. The problem is and always has been giving up shocking goals, I'm honestly not sure it matters where we give them up.

Logically there shouldnt be any difference in Home vs Away but there is and its been measured statistically a number of times. Basically a team tries harder with their own crowd behind them and in familiar surroundings...its just human nature. Away from home, particularly in the English Premiership where there are few pushover teams, you have to be hard to beat before you can win.

I cant agree that we have always played such a high line. Pele has changed a lot, some good some bad. One thing I've noticed is how teams away hassle us when we try to play out from the back until we eventually give up possession or kick long.

I hope I'm wrong but away from home I think Pele is being out thought. If its bad luck we will see a change but every game that goes by I think its less likely to be luck.

The same manager that has us playing so well at home is also responsible for the same tactics not working away.

 

[OB1]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

Tottenham and Southampton have the best two defences this year both play a high line, the differences with us are this is their 2nd season using it and also we haven't been able to use the same centre backs all season mainly due to injuries, I think I heard it was 7 different parings already. if we can get our best defenders playing the system regularly our results will improve.

And, funnily enough, as I keep parroting, Spurs and Saints are two of the three teams that are conceding the least shots at their goal. The other team, the team with the fewest shots conceded. is City.

I reiterate, if we finish the season as the team that has conceded fewest shots - as indeed we were last season - we will end up with a good enough defensive record to win the league because there is every chance that we will score the most goals.

We conceded fewest shots because once a team gets in front against us they know their best bet is to shut up shop rather than go for another. I dont think its just badluck though I hope you are right.

There is not one sole reason why we concede the fewest shots. And most of the winners that teams have scored against us have come late in games.

Equally, bad luck has not been the sole reason for us conceding too many goals; although a quarter of goals conceded in the league should have been disallowed. We have had a series of unfortunate events that I think are abnormal in their frequency and if that levels out, all other things being equal, things could improve very rapidly. Undoubtedly that needs to happen quickly.

 

[Lancet Fluke]

Re: Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 3)

Isn't it more relevant where the shots are from than how many shots? I'd rather concede 20 shots from outside the box than 2 one on ones. I'd be more interested to know how many chances we are giving away rather than how many shots.