Discuss Pellegrini (Pt 4)

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BillyShears said:
Ray78 said:
True BS and I could understand if he was 12 months and making the same mistakes into his contract, making the same mistakes and failed to get us out of the groups.

I don't think even the most ardent Pellegrini fans like myself would argue he's made mistakes since the season began. However considering how Moyes and Mourinho are doing with their vast PL experience, the over exaggeration of our current situation is lamentable. People talking about how we won't finish in the top 4, IMO, should get their heads tested. Absolute idiocy and all the more lamentable coming from people who never wanted Mancini sacked, never wanted Pellegrini as manager, and have been literally bleating since his second competitive game in charge.

Still I know it makes them go all puce with rage and frustration that me, someone who wanted Mancini sacked, has the temerity to rate our current manager even though he doesn't have as many trophies as Bobby.


This article was written at the time of Robert Mancini's sacking and I feel brings balance to proceedings

Manuel Pellegrini should know just how Roberto Mancini feels

Chilean coach was dumped at Real Madrid in circumstances similar to those experienced by Manchester City manager
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Sid Lowe

Sid Lowe


The Guardian, Tuesday 14 May 2013 19.05 BST

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Manuel Pellegrini
Manuel Pellegrini's one spell at a club commensurate with Manchester City, in terms of size and pressure, ended badly after only a season. Photograph: Nick Potts/PA


"I've got a contract and no one has told me that I'm not going to fulfil it. I can't imagine that the club would have spoken to anyone behind my back; that doesn't fit their values." The phrase could have come from Roberto Mancini on the eve of his last game with Manchester City. Instead it came from the man who is set to replace him, Manuel Pellegrini, on the eve of his last game in charge of Real Madrid, in May 2010.

If Mancini dismissed the rumours as "rubbish" virtually up to the last minute, Pellegrini was a little more realistic. "I'm not so naive as to believe that all the rumours are purely a product of media speculation," he said. Deep down, he knew that Real had indeed spoken behind his back: to José Mourinho, who would replace him just days later, and to the newspaper Marca, which had relentlessly attacked him. He also knew that his was the chronicle of a death foretold.

Pellegrini has been an unqualified, if trophyless, success at Málaga and Villarreal but his one spell at a club commensurate with Manchester City, in terms of size and pressure, ended badly. Mourinho's signing was public before Pellegrini had been formally released. He probably knows how Mancini feels.

The Chilean had been in charge for just one year, the first of a new era under returning president Florentino Pérez. When Pérez arrived in 2009, Cristiano Ronaldo had already been signed for £80m, the deal closed by the former president Ramón Calderón. Kaká and Karim Benzema also arrived, costing more than €100m between them, and Xabi Alonso and Raúl Albiol came too. In total, Madrid spent €258m. "We have to do in one year what we would normally do in three," Pérez said.

It turned out that he was right, just not in the way he anticipated. In the three previous years under Pérez, Madrid had finished empty-handed; in his first season back they did, too. "Pellegrini is not a winner," Pérez moaned to board members. He failed to mention that not one of the five coaches he had chosen to employ were; perhaps he was not a winner.

Those three seasons had seen Madrid decline, not even challenging for the title. This time there was clear progress. The problem was that Madrid were beaten twice by what Pellegrini described as "the best Barcelona in history": 0-2 at home and 1-0 away, with Ronaldo missing a glorious chance. To put that result into context, the following season, Mourinho's Madrid were defeated 5-0 there.

Under Pellegrini, Madrid went into the final day with a mathematical chance of winning the title. As news filtered through that Barcelona were winning 4-0, Madrid finally surrendered, drawing 1-1. That meant they finished the campaign with 102 goals, the second-highest total ever, and on 96 points, a new club record. But Pep Guardiola's side took the title on 99 points. "I'd like to congratulate Real Madrid, fantastic opponents without whom we would never have reached 99," Guardiola said. "Pellegrini and his players have dignified our profession."

"We've created the foundations to be successful next season," Pellegrini said. But there would be no next season for him. Not only had Madrid failed to win the league, in the Copa del Rey they had been humiliated by third tier Alcorcón, who defeated them 4-0. And in the Champions League, Lyon knocked them out at the last -16 stage with a 1-1 draw at the Bernabéu. Again, there are parallels to Mancini's final season: European failure (albeit later), a cup defeat against underdogs (albeit earlier and against far lowlier opposition), and sacked with indecent haste.

Most considered Pellegrini's sacking questionable; what he had achieved at Villarreal left no one in any doubt that he was a good coach and circumstances at Madrid had been more than mitigating. There was criticism for Madrid's lack of patience. Despite the promise that this time things would be different, they had sacked another manager. Pellegrini was No6: was it really all fault? He had no say in the €258m spent, nor in the fact that Wesley Sneijder and Arjen Robben were sold.

In his first press conference he said he was counting on Sneijder. Eleven days later he had gone. That year the Champions League final was held at the Bernabéu: Sneijder and Robben both played.

Pellegrini had chosen Gonzalo Higuaín over Benzema; Higuaín was the team's top scorer, ahead even of Ronaldo, but he was not Pérez's signing and it did not go down well at board level. He also had to ease Raúl away from the first team at last – the striker was shifted out before Mourinho arrived, that first step taken by his predecessor – and Guti had been, well, Guti. The coach's authority had been fatally undermined yet again; his requests not met, left exposed and alone by the club, no one ever defending him against the campaign that vilified him – which is not surprising when it came from inside the club.

Runner-up is never enough at Madrid. But Pellegrini's working conditions had been far from easy, the inescapable context within which to judge his results. Besides, the progress was clear. In the league, they had challenged. The cup exit was perhaps the most embarrassing defeat in the club's history, but it was the cup – unloved and un-won for 20 years. And Higuaín had hit the post with an open goal in the Champions League game against Lyon and even here there was no regression: Madrid had gone out at the same stage that they had done for six successive seasons.

There was sympathy for Pellegrini too for the sheer viciousness of the campaign to which he had been subjected, and for its providence, for the fact that Pérez had never truly wanted him: Pellegrini was the director general Jorge Valdano's choice. Valdano defended him to the board, so too did Zinedine Zidane. They wanted stability, an idea; the very thing City seek. But it was pointless; Pérez was not for turning.

Yet few really shed tears. This, after all, is Real Madrid, where managers have been sacked after winning, where change is inevitable and stability a utopia. This is just the way it is, sackings are a way of life. The bottom line was that he had not won – and with that team.

Besides, there was the promise of someone better, a man who had seduced them all andwho could do for Madrid what Madrid could not do for themselves: prevent the humiliation of watching Barcelona winning the Champions League in their stadium. Some have changed their minds since, and it is legitimate to ask if Mourinho has been truly successful. But in the summer of 2010 few doubted the Portuguese was perfect.

Pérez had endured a fourth consecutive year without a trophy and was desperate to win the European Cup and to beat Barcelona, at any cost. Over at Internazionale, Mourinho had just done exactly that
 
taconinja said:
Make no mistake, though. Pelligrini's failed so far. We should be coasting to the league title with the squad he has. We aren't. We might wake up one day and suddenly everything clicks. I admit that. I can not put everything down to individual errors, though. The travesty against Bayern Munich was down to the manager.

Putting aside the subjective opinion that he's failed so far (I find that assertion nonsense), I agree that we should be much further ahead than we are. I also agree that everything cannot be put down to individual errors although some of it can. All results ultimately are down to the manager, I've always believed that, and Pellegrini is no different in that regard.

But since he's only been in charge for a few months and is a few months into managing in the PL for the first time, I think it would be wise for us all to see how the season pans out. Nothing's lost. If anything we're better off than we were this time last season by the very virtue of the fact that we're still in the CL and still in the title race.
 
BillyShears said:
taconinja said:
Make no mistake, though. Pelligrini's failed so far. We should be coasting to the league title with the squad he has. We aren't. We might wake up one day and suddenly everything clicks. I admit that. I can not put everything down to individual errors, though. The travesty against Bayern Munich was down to the manager.

Putting aside the subjective opinion that he's failed so far (I find that assertion nonsense), I agree that we should be much further ahead than we are. I also agree that everything cannot be put down to individual errors although some of it can. All results ultimately are down to the manager, I've always believed that, and Pellegrini is no different in that regard.

But since he's only been in charge for a few months and is a few months into managing in the PL for the first time, I think it would be wise for us all to see how the season pans out. Nothing's lost. If anything we're better off than we were this time last season by the very virtue of the fact that we're still in the CL and still in the title race.
Of course. Keep in mind that failure is subjective. If you do not win a match, you've failed. Losing several away matches are each failures and the season to this point is a failure as it's well below expectations. The season as a whole might not be a failure... or it could be. We don't know until it's over. Either way, the important part is to evaluate constantly and improve.
 
taconinja said:
Either way, the important part is to evaluate constantly and improve.

I agree. I've always felt the same. It's just funny seeing people who wanted all discussion about the previous manager banned, now desperate to talk about nothing but the current manager.
 
BillyShears said:
taconinja said:
Either way, the important part is to evaluate constantly and improve.

I agree. I've always felt the same. It's just funny seeing people who wanted all discussion about the manager banned, now desperate to talk about nothing but.
I never expect anything but extreme overreactions from internet message boards.
 
and have ALL those mistakes been MP fault?

goalkeeper blunders
bad injury luck
poor quality of chances
would take up most poor displays/results

MP is getting used to riding the "city bike" - he will soon be spinning along iam 1000% sure of this

look at other results this year ! the weak are getting stronger - wont be a two horse race like many thought it would be and it for sure aint dead and buried after 11 games like some are suggesting !

r.soleofsalford said:
Blue life said:
BillyShears said:
Mate you may as well be farting into an echo chamber trying to talk to that muppet.


I have read most of this thread with disbelief ! what is wrong with most posters on here?

we have gone from "blue goggled" eternal optimist's to spineless whinging panic stricken moaners in 2 seasons - not going to harp on about where we have come from to where we are today as the level headed poster will know this but please get a grip its so cringing reading some of this drivel its embarrassing - perhaps the mods can create a new "doom and gloom" board where all you moaning whinging un grateful brigade can spread all your disease and doom preaching to each other and keep the main board more reasonable ? is this to over the top ?

fuck me 11 games and 6 points behind and you would have thought it was the end of the world



I could understand if we`d have been beaten by better teams but we havent, we`ve been beat because we`ve made mistakes.
 
taconinja said:
BillyShears said:
taconinja said:
Either way, the important part is to evaluate constantly and improve.

I agree. I've always felt the same. It's just funny seeing people who wanted all discussion about the manager banned, now desperate to talk about nothing but.
I never expect anything but extreme overreactions from internet message boards.

It's like mining for gold. It can sometimes be days before you find something, but then you find something which makes the whole experience worthwhile.
 
BillyShears said:
taconinja said:
BillyShears said:
I agree. I've always felt the same. It's just funny seeing people who wanted all discussion about the manager banned, now desperate to talk about nothing but.
I never expect anything but extreme overreactions from internet message boards.

It's like mining for gold. It can sometimes be days before you find something, but then you find something which makes the whole experience worthwhile.

your posts last season being prime examples
 
BillyShears said:
Ray78 said:
Again after only 11 games into a different Footballing culture......

Mate you may as well be farting into an echo chamber trying to talk to that muppet.

Thank you, Billy. There we have you in all yiour vacuous glory. The empty head that rattles so much he never gets round to being able to put together an explanation of his own opinions, or to give a straight answer to a straight question. I can only assume that you've spent so much time cowering in your Parisian garrett that what command of English you ever had has long since departed. Billy Shears, illiterate and inarticulate, full stop.<br /><br />-- Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:36 pm --<br /><br />
BillyShears said:
taconinja said:
BillyShears said:
I agree. I've always felt the same. It's just funny seeing people who wanted all discussion about the manager banned, now desperate to talk about nothing but.
I never expect anything but extreme overreactions from internet message boards.

It's like mining for gold. It can sometimes be days before you find something, but then you find something which makes the whole experience worthwhile.

Priceless! The Epistle of St Billy to the Bathurstians!
 
BluessinceHydeRoad said:
Thank you, Billy. There we have you in all yiour vacuous glory. The empty head that rattles so much he never gets round to being able to put together an explanation of his own opinions, or to give a straight answer to a straight question. I can only assume that you've spent so much time cowering in your Parisian garrett that what command of English you ever had has long since departed. Billy Shears, illiterate and inarticulate, full stop.

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.
 
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