Discuss Pellegrini

[gordondaviesmoustache]

So, what is there to discuss about Pellegrini? A glance at the table shows that we are in 4th place with 7 points after 4 matches, we have the best goal difference in the division, we are the equal highest scorers and, though 8 teams have conceded fewer goals than we have, we have kept clean sheets in 3 of our four matches. Yet there is a feeling of unease and many posters on here are not as prepared to show patience as they were. This is very like last season, when we took 8 points from our first 4 games, including a point away to Stoke in our 4th match, following Crouch's piece of basketball. The grumbling really began the following week after the defeat in the Bernabeu in the CL. The point is that only results will do Pellegrini's case any good. It's no use saying he's new, that he needs time, that he needn't win anything this season. He has to get us in the top 3 at least, he has to show we can compete with Europe's best - these are now minimum requirements of a City manager, and many supporters are worried that he may not keep us in the top 3. I'd be surprised if City don't get out of this group in the CL but I think we'd have come through this group in either of the last 2 campaigns. It doesn't look that difficult.

The case for the "worriers" is that Mancini had got the team performing at a high level. There were poor performances, but even on bad days we were a hard team to beat and over a season we were the second best team in England, and on a good day we were comfortably the best. What makes it more difficult for Pellegrini is that the club, and a group of fans, wanted Mancini out, but no-one actually wanted Pellegrini in. The club's choice was obviously Guardiola : most of the outers wanted Mourinho. Pellegrini did not figure in the fans' candidates until quite a while after Guardiola had gone to Munich. Only when the news broke that City were in advanced negotiations with Malaga did any posters discover that he was a great manager, better by far than Mancini. Many fans continued to chant for Mancini, sing obscene songs about the new manager-in-waiting but by the start of the new season hoped for the best and wished him well. They were never told that he needed time. Rather that he would play more attractive football, attack more, not be as defensive as Mancini and "take us to the next level". Now, unfortunately, the outers are reluctant in the extreme to make any statement as to what precisely they expect from him this season.

As yet Pellegrini still has to show that he can achieve the club's lofty ambitions and meet the fans' high expectations. The defeat at Cardiff was a severe blow, but nothing has gone seriously wrong as yet. We got a point playing poorly yesterday while Chelsea got nothing for playing well! A point at Stoke is not a bad result. But you don't win titles getting points, or even three, playing badly against poor opposition. Such points may help at the end of the season, but you have to show in the course of the season that you can get three points playing well against very good teams. At the moment Pellegrini has only shown that we can play poorly against teams which will be mid-table at best by the end of the season. He hasn't yet given any proof that we can actually play well against such teams' with the exception of Newcastle, who didn't play at all.

He can make a start with a convincing display and good win in Pilsen on Tuesday and with another good performance and three points against United next Sunday. That indeed would reassure the doubters, though the doubts and worries will not go away fully until the end of a successful season.

Well considered and well balanced post.

I will say that until we play a top team no-one should be making any form of judgement. People point to the fact we haven't played any top team as proof of his failings whereas the opposite, in fact, is true. Until that happens there is no real proof of his credentials imo.

 

[robbieh]

It can't be a coincidence we share an identical record with United and Chelsea, currently, both who have also changed the manager?

Yet, both Mourinho and Moyes are already fully conversant in the ways of the Premier League.

They say one man doesn't make a team but I would beg to differ, and dare say, Barcelona fans would also agree.

The loss of Kompany has also coincided with our worst performances and results under Mancini over the course of two seasons.

Vinny's return will allow Pellegrini to expand his thinking and selection processes by ten-fold.

Every thread going revolves around this same quote
Wait till we get vinnie back
Is the only way our team clicks because of vinnie,if it is we are in trouble tolmie

Sounds like a one man team.

Take Messi out of the Barcelona team and you start to realise, it's not a bad thing.

PSG were taking the piss out of Barca at the Camp Nou until they went for broke and brought on a half-fit hobbling Messi.

The psychological impact certain players have can't be stressed enough.

If Silva, Yaya, even Aguero are missing from the team-sheet, I'm like 'Oh, well'.

I see Komps out of that back four and like our opponents, 'City are half a team'.

Look at Gerrard at Liverpool, an amazing force of nature for over a decade.

Instead of the shite Mancini bought last summer, that £50m should have gone on another centre-back and another left-back.

And that mate sums you up. Totally disingenuous. You know that he didn't want Garcia, Sinclair et al but you nicely work it into a criticism of Mancini.

We also had the opportunity this summer to correct it. Instead more forward thinking players. Txiki?

As for those going on about missing Silva, Clichy etc we still had some excellent players on the pitch the like of which Stoke can only dream about. Hart, Zabba, Nasty, Yaya, Nasri, Negredo and Jovetic. Kun and Navas on the bench.

The fact is a quality team managed by The Engineer got comprehensively outplayed by a workmanlike outfit managed by Clueless.

 

[Chippy_boy]

I have slept on yesterday performance and let me just put one thing out there.

Not one blue,one wants Pellegrini to fail so they can say "told you so". For people to think that blues want to score cheap shots is really quite silly.

My concern is this.Pellegrini has won nothing.
Yesterday he looked like a defeated man already.
He looks haunted as if he is thinking "Wtf have I took on here".

The players for sure need to buck up and start earning what they are paid for.
I still think that Pellegrini will be gone by Christmas and replaced by somebosy else-Who,I have no idea however do we really think that the Spanish pair and Khaldoon have not looked at the 4 performances and thought bar Newcastle this is unacceptable.
Somebody posted last year that Mansour/Khaldoon are winners.They don't accept second best.
So my question is this.Are we happy to just progress in europe-not guaranteed at all and accept a non trophy winning season?
I for one am not but my opinion or anyones on here are not what the board look at.
I will stand by my guns that the sacking of Mancini will put our club back 3 yrs at least but that in no uncertain terms means I or anyone wants us to fail.
Next 2 games are pivotal in our season.
I am not sure why but I just have a bad feeling about things that are going on. Of course off the pitch it is going well,but I for one currently am interested in on pitch performances.

And yet that is precisely the allegation you levelled against the Mancini 'outers' repeatedly for weeks on here! That they hoped City would lose so they could be proven 'right'. You really don't do irony do you?!! That notwithstanding, the continuous linking of the twin decisions to sack Mancini and install Pellegrini, is ill advised. Mancini was an increasingly busted flush, both on and off the field, and the decision to remove him was the correct one in my opinion. The fact that his successor looks to be making a pigs ear of it so far, doesn't change that fact.

As to the rest of your post, I largely share your concerns. I don't know much about Pellegrini in terms of his commitment to a task, but I wonder how much tenacity a 60 year old, who has never managed outside of a Spanish speaking country, who has just lost both of his parents, and who is presently in charge of the one club the English media loves to undermine, will demonstrate when sections of the City crowd (and there are already some morons amidst our number, trying to start Mancini chants) turn on him, as they undoubtedly will if this lunatic board is anything to go by.
The next two games are huge, and based on what we've seen so far, I can see little grounds for optimism in either of them. We have a squad full of talented players, but it is imbalanced, it lacks pace in key areas, and has been found repeatedly wanting over the course of the past 18 months against particular tactics. We are gonna get pressed all season on our travels, and if Pellegrini doesn't change his set up quickly and get his players to demonstrate far more hunger and aggression, then as a prediction I'd venture we ain't gonna finish in the top half, never mind a Champions League spot

Not wanting to be pedantic but show me once where I have said that?
In relation to Mancini-All I have done is fight his corner when certain posters try to rubbish his achievements at our club.
The bottom line is this.Fergie was a winner because he fucked players off who didn't tow the party line..A **** he may have been but there is no doubting who was boss.
Look at our club.Mancini tried it and what happened-The players win and got Mancini sacked.
Again-I want the new manager to be a success however I have seen regression over 4 games.
All I hear is -all will be well when VK is back...What a load of fucking shite.
We aren't a one man team.
Maybe my prediction of him being flirted next week was silly but come xmas I will stand by my prediction of him being sacked as he is NOT the man to take us forward.
The tail is wagging the dog at City and until those tails are sold this will always be the case.
Time time time-Sorry you shouldnt get time when ypu have had nearly 100 million invested in your squad over the summer.

It's FAR FAR FAR too early to judge mate.

I don't know Pellegrini from Adam, having never met him let alone worked with him. I doubt you know him any better. But he will have his ways to get the best out of players and it may (or may not) be different from Mancinis ways. I read that he is a more of a people person and that players generally like him. I read this, but really I have no idea.

But assuming it is true, I still have no clue how he deals with players who won't fall into line. Maybe he is ruthless with those that won't fall into line. Whatever his methods, he has managed to get his previous teams playing great football. I think we need to give him more than 4 games before we judge, don't you.

 

[salfordblue-tony2]

It can't be a coincidence we share an identical record with United and Chelsea, currently, both who have also changed the manager?

Yet, both Mourinho and Moyes are already fully conversant in the ways of the Premier League.

They say one man doesn't make a team but I would beg to differ, and dare say, Barcelona fans would also agree.

The loss of Kompany has also coincided with our worst performances and results under Mancini over the course of two seasons.

Vinny's return will allow Pellegrini to expand his thinking and selection processes by ten-fold.[/quote

Thats exactly what I was thinking. I don't think people fully appreciate how important to the whole team Kompany is.
Not just his defending and leadership, he seems to have an almost magical aura around him that lifts the whole team.
I think this was particular showing against Newcastle, blowing them away, easy win. Then last 20 mins or so we lost Vinny, the whole team just went to pieces.

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Every thread going revolves around this same quote
Wait till we get vinnie back
Is the only way our team clicks because of vinnie,if it is we are in trouble tolmie

Sounds like a one man team.

Take Messi out of the Barcelona team and you start to realise, it's not a bad thing.

PSG were taking the piss out of Barca at the Camp Nou until they went for broke and brought on a half-fit hobbling Messi.

The psychological impact certain players have can't be stressed enough.

If Silva, Yaya, even Aguero are missing from the team-sheet, I'm like 'Oh, well'.

I see Komps out of that back four and like our opponents, 'City are half a team'.

Look at Gerrard at Liverpool, an amazing force of nature for over a decade.

Instead of the shite Mancini bought last summer, that £50m should have gone on another centre-back and another left-back.

I'm pretty sure Mancini wanted Thiago Silva? De Rossi? Martinez? Interesting that we didn't sign a single defensive player in this transfer window until Kompany got injured and we panicked.

Two of those are midfielders, whatever their other merits, bud.

I'm in a pretty small minority, but I don't actually rate Thiago Silva that highly, certainly not the cash he moved for. Same for De Rossi, another I have a hard time imagining doing a £40m song and dance for.

Sure, it would have looked good on the headlines, and large sections of our support would have dined out on the bragging rights.

I was laughed out of court at the time, but I still believe we missed a huge trick not snapping up Gary Cahill for what he was going for, simply in terms of adding additional strength.

We really did strike it rich the day Hughes got Kompany for £6m!

 

[Anonymous]

Maybe he is ruthless with those that won't fall into line. Whatever his methods, he has managed to get his previous teams playing great football. I think we need to give him more than 4 games before we judge, don't you.

Pellegrini will drop anyone who doesn't fall into line with the way he wants them to work on the field.

In many respects it's been the perfect storm for those who had made their mind's up about the manager before he was even appointed. We've lost Vinny, Silva, and Clichy to injury, and as I said earlier in the thread, we'd have been just as shit under Mancini (and often were even in our title winning season). However through rose tinted revisionism we were now never ever poor under him, never dropped points we shouldn't have done ...

The only salient point right now for those who are interested in being objective about the situation, is that we're 4 games into a new manager's tenure, and are missing key players. Results/points are far more important than performances right now.

 

[Marvin]

Every thread going revolves around this same quote
Wait till we get vinnie back
Is the only way our team clicks because of vinnie,if it is we are in trouble tolmie

Sounds like a one man team.

Take Messi out of the Barcelona team and you start to realise, it's not a bad thing.

PSG were taking the piss out of Barca at the Camp Nou until they went for broke and brought on a half-fit hobbling Messi.

The psychological impact certain players have can't be stressed enough.

If Silva, Yaya, even Aguero are missing from the team-sheet, I'm like 'Oh, well'.

I see Komps out of that back four and like our opponents, 'City are half a team'.

Look at Gerrard at Liverpool, an amazing force of nature for over a decade.

Instead of the shite Mancini bought last summer, that £50m should have gone on another centre-back and another left-back.

I'm pretty sure Mancini wanted Thiago Silva? De Rossi? Martinez? Interesting that we didn't sign a single defensive player in this transfer window until Kompany got injured and we panicked.

You take the defensive lynchpin out of any team and they will struggle, especially when their deputies are out.

We should be satisfied we are 4th when we have had all our defence out at a time when new players are coming into the team, plus a new manager

I don't think Pellegrini should have changed the formation and marking systems when we have had so many personnel changes, but maybe the team have been working on this the entire Summer

Look at the injury list now. Every player is on their way back, and we'll get better.

In the meantime, lets get behind the team and appreciate what we have

Utd and Chelsea all have their own problems with no real solutions whereas we have the armoury coming back. They just need to get out on the pitch together and time to gel as a unit. Jovetic for example is a fine player, but do you remember Silva when he first came? And Jovetic made his debut in front of a makeshift team. Allowances have to be made

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

Maybe he is ruthless with those that won't fall into line. Whatever his methods, he has managed to get his previous teams playing great football. I think we need to give him more than 4 games before we judge, don't you.

Pellegrini will drop anyone who doesn't fall into line with the way he wants them to work on the field.

In many respects it's been the perfect storm for those who had made their mind's up about the manager before he was even appointed. We've lost Vinny, Silva, and Clichy to injury, and as I said earlier in the thread, we'd have been just as shit under Mancini (and often were even in our title winning season). However through rose tinted revisionism we were now never ever poor under him, never dropped points we shouldn't have done ...

The only salient point right now for those who are interested in being objective about the situation, is that we're 4 games into a new manager's tenure, and are missing key players. Results/points are far more important than performances right now.

Same old excuses Billy-Not having a go at all but it must hurt to realise that you have backed the wrong horse in a 2 horse race??

Quick question-and you can ignore it if you like-How long are you personally going to give him before you judge him?

 

[tolmie's hairdoo]

Every thread going revolves around this same quote
Wait till we get vinnie back
Is the only way our team clicks because of vinnie,if it is we are in trouble tolmie

Sounds like a one man team.

Take Messi out of the Barcelona team and you start to realise, it's not a bad thing.

PSG were taking the piss out of Barca at the Camp Nou until they went for broke and brought on a half-fit hobbling Messi.

The psychological impact certain players have can't be stressed enough.

If Silva, Yaya, even Aguero are missing from the team-sheet, I'm like 'Oh, well'.

I see Komps out of that back four and like our opponents, 'City are half a team'.

Look at Gerrard at Liverpool, an amazing force of nature for over a decade.

Instead of the shite Mancini bought last summer, that £50m should have gone on another centre-back and another left-back.

And that mate sums you up. Totally disingenuous. You know that he didn't want Garcia, Sinclair et al but you nicely work it into a criticism of Mancini.

We also had the opportunity this summer to correct it. Instead more forward thinking players. Txiki?

As for those going on about missing Silva, Clichy etc we still had some excellent players on the pitch the like of which Stoke can only dream about. Hart, Zabba, Nasty, Yaya, Nasri, Negredo and Jovetic. Kun and Navas on the bench.

The fact is a quality team managed by The Engineer got comprehensively outplayed by a workmanlike outfit managed by Clueless.

Think you will find Garcia was a Mancini target for a very long time and the player himself says we were negotiating for him for months before he actually signed.

Angelo Grecucci actually scouted him on numerous occasions playing for Benfica.

Mancini is also on record saying he got it wrong on Sinclair and quickly realised HE had made a mistake.

 

[robbieh]

Take Messi out of the Barcelona team and you start to realise, it's not a bad thing.

PSG were taking the piss out of Barca at the Camp Nou until they went for broke and brought on a half-fit hobbling Messi.

The psychological impact certain players have can't be stressed enough.

If Silva, Yaya, even Aguero are missing from the team-sheet, I'm like 'Oh, well'.

I see Komps out of that back four and like our opponents, 'City are half a team'.

Look at Gerrard at Liverpool, an amazing force of nature for over a decade.

Instead of the shite Mancini bought last summer, that £50m should have gone on another centre-back and another left-back.

And that mate sums you up. Totally disingenuous. You know that he didn't want Garcia, Sinclair et al but you nicely work it into a criticism of Mancini.

We also had the opportunity this summer to correct it. Instead more forward thinking players. Txiki?

As for those going on about missing Silva, Clichy etc we still had some excellent players on the pitch the like of which Stoke can only dream about. Hart, Zabba, Nasty, Yaya, Nasri, Negredo and Jovetic. Kun and Navas on the bench.

The fact is a quality team managed by The Engineer got comprehensively outplayed by a workmanlike outfit managed by Clueless.

Think you will find Garcia was a Mancini target for a very long time and the player himself says we were negotiating for him for months before he actually signed.

Angelo Grecucci actually scouted him on numerous occasions playing for Benfica.

Mancini is also on record saying he got it wrong on Sinclair and quickly realised HE had made a mistake.

I thought Marwood was responsible for the backups.

The underlined and this previous quote 'We really did strike it rich the day Hughes got Kompany for £6m!' suggests to me that you never forgave Mancini for replacing your favourite manager.