Discuss Pellegrini

[BobKowalski]

Apologise Bob, I took your Tesco comment out of context. Here it is in full:



So it's been clear for a while you simply don't rate Pellegrini. Stands to reason then that after two games you'd be making sweeping generalisations about how we can't defend anymore and it's all the managers fault.

I don't rate Pellegrini. I didn't rate him before he was appointed, since he was appointed or now. I have seen Pellegrini in action 3 times in competitive games. His last for Malaga (they were shit), Newcastle (we were good) and Cardiff (fill in the blank).

I do not have enough evidence to rate Pellegrini anymore than I rated Mancini when he first arrived. I knew little about Mancini and I am in the same position with Pellegrini. I will form an opinion on Pellegrini after more games. Its not a difficult concept.

Good luck forming an opinion to challenge the uninformed one you currently have. Let me know when the formation is complete and informed and we'll have an informed discussion.

Luck has little to do with it. Its the same with any new manager whose background you are unfamiliar with. You watch them in action and draw your conclusions. As I said its not a difficult concept. So far there are issues rising from the Cardiff game that have me concerned. I raise them hoping for a debate. I have yet to get a debate or even much of a discussion but then people seem much more concerned about defending predefined positions, scoring points and digging up old posts as if they proved something. It was sweet of you to go to the trouble but all you had to do is ask what is my current take on Pellegrini and I would have happily answered.

So just relax. Discuss the issues raised on a game by game basis and try not to cry 'conspiracy' or worry that everyone is out to get Pellers. No one is out to get him. I'm not interested in 'getting him'. I am interested in the rationale behind the switch from zonal to man marking which directly led to conceding two goals; why we lost 'concentration' and why we lost a match we would normally have won from the point of taking a 1-0 lead.

 

[Marvin]

Last season we had a discussion about whether we had declined since last season, and the argument was over as soon as the season finished as the results provided the proof.

Then that left the discussion as who was responsible: The conclusion was Mancini

The opening away game exhibited two faults:

1) Bad Defending: Put that down to 3 injured Centre-Backs plus change to man to man marking at corners. Understandandable

2) Slow build-up play and monopoly of possession with almost zero efforts on goal that smacks of complacency

It's the 2nd point that's concerning, and makes you wonder whether Mancini should have been backed. Maybe he fell out with the players because they were not playing with the passion and desire he expected?

No point punishing Pellegrini for that. But the Cardiff game reminded me of the listless Wembley Performance, Do the players have the hunger? This is a legitimate question based on how last season finished and how this season ha started. It's the away games which show up the attitude

 

[samharris]

Absolutely cringeworthy bollocks. You're pining for a woman who spent a good year fucking around behind your back because you still love her so. Reexamine that shite you've posted and then tell me how you could possibly be "behind" our new manager as you keep saying.

I'm sorry - you've obviously mistaken me for someone who actually gives a shit. If anything I privately hope St Helen continues with her cringeworthy bollocks about missing Mancini. It's testament to just how close she is to a One Direction fan ... ;)

Its because I know you give a shit that I posted that gif. ;)

 

[BobKowalski]

Last season we had a discussion about whether we had declined since last season, and the argument was over as soon as the season finished as the results provided the proof.

Then that left the discussion as who was responsible: The conclusion was Mancini

The opening away game exhibited two faults:

1) Bad Defending: Put that down to 3 injured Centre-Backs plus change to man to man marking at corners. Understandandable

2) Slow build-up play and monopoly of possession with almost zero efforts on goal that smacks of complacency

It's the 2nd point that's concerning, and makes you wonder whether Mancini should have been backed. Maybe he fell out with the players because they were not playing with the passion and desire he expected?

No point punishing Pellegrini for that. But the Cardiff game reminded me of the listless Wembley Performance, Do the players have the hunger? This is a legitimate question based on how last season finished and how this season ha started. It's the away games which show up the attitude

On the points you raised.

1) Losing experienced CB's ok it happens but playing a makeshift back line and the changing the system is just making problems for yourself as you are putting added pressure on the makeshift pairing and the backline as whole. Should we have not then taken the practical step of reverting back to zonal and the familiarity of that for this one game or until we have at least Nasty back whilst putting in more work on the training field? Pick the system to suit the players as a one off to me makes sense.

2) The slow play is annoying at times but I worry less when we have control (ie possession) and once we make the breakthrough it is invariably gameover. I am not going at this stage to question the desire, hunger or complacency of the players as I think its just too soon under a new regime but it does tie in with my own particular issue and that is we lost at the very point we should and invariably did win games and what this potentially says about our current mentality. It may be a one off though so I don't want to rush to a premature judgement.

 

[bobmcfc]

Why do you bother replying to him, it gives him a sense of self-importance? The irony of him telling us to get behind the manager and that most of us are wanting Manuel to fail, you couldn't make it up. Everytime we got beat in the last 2 years we've had to put with his hatred of "The Italian" and even now it's Mancini's fault. I've also noticed only 2 of the 3 Amigos in here, where's Dismal hiding?

I'm trying to reduce the amount of conflict I get into here. I see potential in uniting around a new manager. Billy has been more friendly to me as well so I'm going to continue being more friendly to him. However, I still find it illogical that the Outers want me to get mad at Mancini for looking out for himself when the club did exactly the same thing. Neither was loyal. You can get angry at both, or angry at neither (my preference), but you cannot be logically mad at one but not the other.

That's how I see it.

 

[Anonymous]

Last season we had a discussion about whether we had declined since last season, and the argument was over as soon as the season finished as the results provided the proof.

Then that left the discussion as who was responsible: The conclusion was Mancini

The opening away game exhibited two faults:

1) Bad Defending: Put that down to 3 injured Centre-Backs plus change to man to man marking at corners. Understandandable

2) Slow build-up play and monopoly of possession with almost zero efforts on goal that smacks of complacency

It's the 2nd point that's concerning, and makes you wonder whether Mancini should have been backed. Maybe he fell out with the players because they were not playing with the passion and desire he expected?

No point punishing Pellegrini for that. But the Cardiff game reminded me of the listless Wembley Performance, Do the players have the hunger? This is a legitimate question based on how last season finished and how this season ha started. It's the away games which show up the attitude

On the first point ... I tend to agree. The arguments about zonal/man marking are a bit like the ones about teams switching to play a high defensive line. With change will come teething problems, it's natural. But it's not something I'm going to worry about right now. If we're still shipping stupid goals from set pieces in a month's time whilst man marking I'll revisit it.

On the second point, and this is a point I made yesterday as well. We tend to judge passion and desire based on the amount of ground we cover and the amount of leg work we see our players doing. It's natural that we see more of this at home where we tend to have more space to play in and therefore more ground for players like Yaya, Fernandinho, etc to run in to. It's also why we struggle when we go to smaller grounds where teams play with a very deep defensive line, but also with midfield players happy to run tirelessly to close down whatever space we like to play in.

That's not to say that there wasn't a problem in the application of what we were trying to do on Sunday. But really, you're looking for finite answers when it's just far too early. I'll say again, 7 weeks and two competitive games is all Pellegrini has had. It seems churlish and wantonly negative to start questioning the players' ambitions or the manager's tactical nous so early on. Give him a month and then lets talk.

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

I think you will find that if we don't get it right this season then it will not just be me who will be feeling a little uncomfortable about the way things went last year and not just me asking for answers.
For the last time Billy and your loverboy Fantasy...I am totally behind Pellers but trying to erase what Mancini did for the club because you simply don't like him or his manner is just pathetic.

One direction. No problem with them from me,my little girl loves them...

How is Paris Billy...

I think you'll find posting "I wish he was still here" followed by "the players like Hart got him sacked with they'd been fucked off" is embarrassing cringeworthy bollocks which is so far removed from the truth, only a frustrated teenage girl who was in love with Mancini could post it.

You keep saying you're totally behind Pellers. In fact you say it in nearly every one of your posts. Yet still nobody believes you. Wonder why that could be ... :)

See you at Stoke hey mate...........woops maybe not....

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

This place is full of *****?

Last time I checked this wasn't breaking news ... :)

On your post from earlier, I should've used a different analogy because my point wasn't to denigrate Mancini for looking at other jobs (even though I know I've done that in the past). Within the context of me taking piss out of St Helen, I was just pointing out to him that he was pining for someone who was gone, which if you do it about a woman is almost forgivable, but doing it about a football manager when the new guy hasn't even had a chance is embarrassing.

-- Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:02 pm --

I don't rate Pellegrini. I didn't rate him before he was appointed, since he was appointed or now. I have seen Pellegrini in action 3 times in competitive games. His last for Malaga (they were shit), Newcastle (we were good) and Cardiff (fill in the blank).

I do not have enough evidence to rate Pellegrini anymore than I rated Mancini when he first arrived. I knew little about Mancini and I am in the same position with Pellegrini. I will form an opinion on Pellegrini after more games. Its not a difficult concept.

Good luck forming an opinion to challenge the uninformed one you currently have. Let me know when the formation is complete and informed and we'll have an informed discussion.

Ok Billy - I'm in a fairly reasonable mood, so I'll humour you awhile.
Could you possibly explain to a simple soul like myself exactly why BobKowalski, ( a poster I think talks a lot of sense and makes his case well ), is 'uninformed', whereas you, who live in another country and come over for a handful of games a year, presumably is clued-up and has his finger on the pulse.
Oh, and it's grossly unfair to tar us all with the same Johnny-Come-Lately brush in thinking you are a **** for the last 12 months.
A fair few of us have thought it for an awful lot longer.

Whoops - nearly forgot - :)

Careful Fetters.Don't question his "loyalty" or the fact he lives in France...He really won't like it pal.........

 

[samharris]

The Bluemoon syncronised popcorn eaters are going for the gold medal..

 

[St Helens Blue (Exiled)]

The Bluemoon syncronised popcorn eaters are going for the gold medal..

Where is the original cat pal.I haven't seen him for ages.