Dzeko / Bent article in Guardian

scowy68 said:
Oh my friend i have seen it so many times before,you challenged my opinion on Dzeko and one or two others more or less agreed with what i said.I think the common feeling was that it may take him so time to adapt to the game over here,that wasn't based on research of Dzeko alone,more an assessment of players who have came to the premier league before him.

Now then because your ego took a bit of dent, you then resorted to being silly and followed it up with your childish little remarks,my guess is that your just a silly little boy who likes to play the big man from behind a computer screen.Now i do apologise if you lost face during this thread,perhaps you will let me buy you a pint to make amends on your next visit to City?
Click to expand...

Oh, wasn't your previous post the last one towards me, as you promised to let me feel secure or whatever? :)

Blah blah blah.

Anyway, two points worth addressing:
1. I've challenged Dzeko much, much more than you have, I just chose to do it with people here who actually knew what they were talking about on that very topic. Sorry you were not around, but as my newly recruited fan, I'm sure you will search through my posts yourself. ;) You don't have to admit it to me and everyone reading this, but I hope you did admit to yourself that Dzeko is really a black box for you. When people discuss e.g. Kolo Toure, I listen. At best, I may ask questions, as I really don't know him that well, he's still a black box for me, for instance... I don't come up with "instant opinions" which are meant to be some sort of a median of what you've seen here, and hence simply politically correct jibberish. Again, I listen, then listen some more, didn't even leave a single reply on such topics... It does need to settle down in one's head, and you need to keep watching the game also looking out for the traits people are attributing a player. They can be right, but they can also be wrong. It takes much, much longer, than any two, three or four given matches.

2. I slapped you silly for a good reason, it has nothing to do with my ego. Call it an educative measure as soon as you cool down, you may even thank me for it at some point in the distant future!

As per the pint, sure, as long as you are not already aiming it at my head. ;)
 
Some strikers adapt more quickly than others Simon,and sometimes they are asked to play in slightly different formations,to accommodate players already in the team.Can't remember where klinsmann came from,but he seemed tailor made for the premier league when he arrived.Thierry Henry was a winger in Serie A,switched to an out and out striker by Wenger and became one of the best strikers we have seen on these shores.

Rooney used to be out wide to accommodate,Ronaldo,he played this role in the champions league final and was anonymous against Barca.The following season he switched back to a more central striking role and had his best season for the rags so far.Could we ever play,Tevez,Balotelli and Dzeko in the same starting line up and accommodate all three?
 
wanderer72 said:
scowy68 said:
Oh my friend i have seen it so many times before,you challenged my opinion on Dzeko and one or two others more or less agreed with what i said.I think the common feeling was that it may take him so time to adapt to the game over here,that wasn't based on research of Dzeko alone,more an assessment of players who have came to the premier league before him.

Now then because your ego took a bit of dent, you then resorted to being silly and followed it up with your childish little remarks,my guess is that your just a silly little boy who likes to play the big man from behind a computer screen.Now i do apologise if you lost face during this thread,perhaps you will let me buy you a pint to make amends on your next visit to City?
Click to expand...

Oh, wasn't your previous post the last one towards me, as you promised to let me feel secure or whatever? :)

Blah blah blah.

Anyway, two points worth addressing:
1. I've challenged Dzeko much, much more than you have, I just chose to do it with people here who actually knew what they were talking about on that very topic. Sorry you were not around, but as my newly recruited fan, I'm sure you will search through my posts yourself. ;) You don't have to admit it to me and everyone reading this, but I hope you did admit to yourself that Dzeko is really a black box for you. When people discuss e.g. Kolo Toure, I listen. At best, I may ask questions, as I really don't know him that well, he's still a black box for me, for instance... I don't come up with "instant opinions" which are meant to be some sort of a median of what you've seen here, and hence simply politically correct jibberish. Again, I listen, then listen some more, didn't even leave a single reply on such topics... It does need to settle down in one's head, and you need to keep watching the game also looking out for the traits people are attributing a player. They can be right, but they can also be wrong. It takes much, much longer, than any two, three or four given matches.

2. I slapped you silly for a good reason, it has nothing to do with my ego. Call it an educative measure as soon as you cool down, you may even thank me for it at some point in the distant future!

As per the pint, sure, as long as you are not already aiming it at my head. ;)
Click to expand...

Lol when i calm down?an educative measure?you are as the wise guy said in the goodfella's movie, a very funny guy!

like i keep saying to you,my statements we're not based on knowledge of Dzeko as a player,i will admit to seeing very little of him before he made his city debut,the point i have been trying to make all along,is that a different league requires new players to adapt,that goes for nearly every player who has not played premier league football before,some never quite adapt and leave for other league's,I'M sure you can think of two high profile players that played for Utd that spring to mind.

Dzeko i would say has a good chance of adapting quickly over here,he's good with both feet,has great ability scoring with his head and has the physical presence to cope with the demands of the premier league.Oh and what makes you think i would waste a pint aiming it at your head my friend,if you had pissed me off i''d let you know in other ways.
 
scowy68 said:
Some strikers adapt more quickly than others Simon,and sometimes they are asked to play in slightly different formations,to accommodate players already in the team.Can't remember where klinsmann came from,but he seemed tailor made for the premier league when he arrived.Thierry Henry was a winger in Serie A,switched to an out and out striker by Wenger and became one of the best strikers we have seen on these shores.

Rooney used to be out wide to accommodate,Ronaldo,he played this role in the champions league final and was anonymous against Barca.The following season he switched back to a more central striking role and had his best season for the rags so far.Could we ever play,Tevez,Balotelli and Dzeko in the same starting line up and accommodate all three?
Click to expand...

Klinsman came originally from the Bundesliga (supposedly "slower"), via France (supposedly "much slower"). A great proof that the PL being much faster is a common myth, or at least a heavy exaggeration. It may have been that way in the 60's, I don't know, but football today is getting (too much) alike wherever you go.

I won't comment on the others. I think the answer to your question is a firm "NO". Playing with three strikers against any decent side assumes a bulletproof midfield and defense, and City currently doesn't have it, nor do I think it will have it for a long, long while. Not really too much of a problem, but I don't get why everyone is so in love with the classic 4-3-3.

A bit of trivia (off topic): Alan Sugar signed Klinsmann on his yacht ported in either Cannes or Monte Carlo (don't remember correctly), it's a great story showing how much improvisation there was in the big PL sides at the time, and probably still is. Sugar's autobiography is one of the most entertaining books I've read in a long, long time, so I can highly recommend it.
 
klinsman had the knack of being in the right place at the right time,the same as Shearer,i don't think either's game was based on great pace.Michael Owen was a great striker in he had both,he lost the pace,but was still decent because he had the instinct to put the ball in the back of the next,as we found to our cost in the derby last season.

I mentioned Dzeko,Tevez,and Balotelli in a City strike force because it had been suggested with Balotelli playing out wide.
 
scowy68 said:
wanderer72 said:
Oh, wasn't your previous post the last one towards me, as you promised to let me feel secure or whatever? :)

Blah blah blah.

Anyway, two points worth addressing:
1. I've challenged Dzeko much, much more than you have, I just chose to do it with people here who actually knew what they were talking about on that very topic. Sorry you were not around, but as my newly recruited fan, I'm sure you will search through my posts yourself. ;) You don't have to admit it to me and everyone reading this, but I hope you did admit to yourself that Dzeko is really a black box for you. When people discuss e.g. Kolo Toure, I listen. At best, I may ask questions, as I really don't know him that well, he's still a black box for me, for instance... I don't come up with "instant opinions" which are meant to be some sort of a median of what you've seen here, and hence simply politically correct jibberish. Again, I listen, then listen some more, didn't even leave a single reply on such topics... It does need to settle down in one's head, and you need to keep watching the game also looking out for the traits people are attributing a player. They can be right, but they can also be wrong. It takes much, much longer, than any two, three or four given matches.

2. I slapped you silly for a good reason, it has nothing to do with my ego. Call it an educative measure as soon as you cool down, you may even thank me for it at some point in the distant future!

As per the pint, sure, as long as you are not already aiming it at my head. ;)
Click to expand...

Lol when i calm down?an educative measure?you are as the wise guy said in the goodfella's movie, a very funny guy!

like i keep saying to you,my statements we're not based on knowledge of Dzeko as a player,i will admit to seeing very little of him before he made his city debut,the point i have been trying to make all along,is that a different league requires new players to adapt,that goes for nearly every player who has not played premier league football before,some never quite adapt and leave for other league's,I'M sure you can think of two high profile players that played for Utd that spring to mind.

Dzeko i would say has a good chance of adapting quickly over here,he's good with both feet,has great ability scoring with his head and has the physical presence to cope with the demands of the premier league.Oh and what makes you think i would waste a pint aiming it at your head my friend,if you had pissed me off i''d let you know in other ways.
Click to expand...

FF to the substance (in bold): and I keep telling (and proving) you that, all the BS aside, if Dzeko can score against UTD, Germany, Bayern, Villareal, etc, and do so consistently, he can do that the same against any bloody PL side just as easily and consistently. He doesn't really need time, he needs a system, and the system needs time.

Mancini's "Dzeko needs time" (btw, if you listen to him, he says that about nearly every other player, listen about whom he's NOT saying it and you have half of the puzzle resolved ;) is a very intelligent COVER STORY meant to buy him and the others (just as much) time to fix the system and put it in place. Nobody can score consistently without a solid system behind (not even Tevez or Dzeko), and that's the main thing in the whole story.

Football is too alike these days wherever you go, look at all the foreign players and coaches in the PL.
 
scowy68 said:
klinsman had the knack of being in the right place at the right time,the same as Shearer,i don't think either's game was based on great pace.Michael Owen was a great striker in he had both,he lost the pace,but was still decent because he had the instinct to put the ball in the back of the next,as we found to our cost in the derby last season.

I mentioned Dzeko,Tevez,and Balotelli in a City strike force because it had been suggested with Balotelli playing out wide.
Click to expand...

id like t see all 3 on the pitch at the same time and balo i thinnk does tend to like being on the left

but if you also put silva in there as well the you come up a bit light in midfield

---balo--- dzeko----- tev

-----------silva

-----dejong---- yaya

---------back 4

----------hart------

in this the fullback MUST provide width but at the moment only kolorov is really trying to do this....boateng isnt....zabba can but he aint the quickest at getting back and richards is obviously trying to learn to do it.
 
I will admit to being surprised how comfortable he looked on his debut against Wolves,he did have a hand in Yaya Toure's goal and it was obvious the guy is quite an intelligent player from some of the touches he showed in that game.

I am looking forward to seeing him once he's settled into to our team,i do believe he will be a key player for us,it's so obvious this season we have been lacking a big target man to take pressure off Carlos,it's been tried with Jo,not good enough,and with RSC.

He will take some of the load off Carlos and provide us with another option up front,another concern of mine is a lack of goals throughout the team,and i don't just mean from the strikers,any side with aspirations of winning the league has to have goals coming for everywhere in the team.
 
scowy68 said:
klinsman had the knack of being in the right place at the right time,the same as Shearer,i don't think either's game was based on great pace.Michael Owen was a great striker in he had both,he lost the pace,but was still decent because he had the instinct to put the ball in the back of the next,as we found to our cost in the derby last season.

I mentioned Dzeko,Tevez,and Balotelli in a City strike force because it had been suggested with Balotelli playing out wide.
Click to expand...


You're opening a can of worms here (too much typing for me to fully answer it) but to the bit relating to the current City squad, in short: It wouldn't work. Dzeko and Tevez are not working at all at the moment. Silva and Tevez working out just as badly, really. Bringing another striker (Balo) in the same space doesn't resolve anything, just makes things even more complicated and bizarre.

In a nutshell: Tevez needs to play together with Dzeko in front of Silva and he needs to give up on doing everything alone, otherwise it is Silva behind Dzeko and Balo.
 
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