pudge said:What about the Champions League?bandwagon said:Proelia said:Not hard for dzekos passing accuracy to be better , he only makes about 3 a game
not true.
he has made 80 passes in his 6 epl games.
negredo made 132 passes in his 10 epl games.
Negredo - 51/69 (74%)
Dzeko - 37/60 (62%)
Can't find any Capital One Cup statistics though, although it does exist much like the Champions League, you do know that?
Where's the slagging?bandwagon said:pudge said:What about the Champions League?bandwagon said:not true.
he has made 80 passes in his 6 epl games.
negredo made 132 passes in his 10 epl games.
Negredo - 51/69 (74%)
Dzeko - 37/60 (62%)
Can't find any Capital One Cup statistics though, although it does exist much like the Champions League, you do know that?
before the cska (home) game, negredo and dzeko scored the same amount of goals.
i bet edin would improve his stats if he played vs cska moscow.
as for the capital one cup, edin did very well, 2 goals and 1 assist in 2 games. he pretty much won the newcastle (away) game on his own.
time to stop slagging off edin dzeko.
pudge said:Where's the slagging?bandwagon said:pudge said:What about the Champions League?
Negredo - 51/69 (74%)
Dzeko - 37/60 (62%)
Can't find any Capital One Cup statistics though, although it does exist much like the Champions League, you do know that?
before the cska (home) game, negredo and dzeko scored the same amount of goals.
i bet edin would improve his stats if he played vs cska moscow.
as for the capital one cup, edin did very well, 2 goals and 1 assist in 2 games. he pretty much won the newcastle (away) game on his own.
time to stop slagging off edin dzeko.
.
Or....bandwagon said:pudge said:Where's the slagging?bandwagon said:before the cska (home) game, negredo and dzeko scored the same amount of goals.
i bet edin would improve his stats if he played vs cska moscow.
as for the capital one cup, edin did very well, 2 goals and 1 assist in 2 games. he pretty much won the newcastle (away) game on his own.
time to stop slagging off edin dzeko.
.
read the last 200 pages.
pudge said:Or....bandwagon said:pudge said:Where's the slagging?
.
read the last 200 pages.
You could finally address that we play games outside of the league? If not, why would people listen and 'stop slagging' if you're just going to cherry pick?
If anything you're slagging Negredo...
Thistiggsywiggsywoo said:To have 234 pages debating the ability or inability of a player, tells you one thing for sure. Somewhere, he's lacking.
JasminBosnia said:Edin - Top games - Goals?
Spuds home, 1-0 few minutes before final whistle
Spuds away - 4 goals, there is no other player who scored four in EPL for City
Blackburn away 0-1
Wigan away 0-1
Rags away 1-6 two goals
QPR away - did everything on his own
QPR home - title winning season
Arsenal CC - missed penalty, scored, was all over the pitch
Notts county - CA goal that allowed City to win FA
WBA away - beauty from him
Rags CS - long shot goal
Scored 46 goals in all competition for City.
Enough?
Surely his last full match that you claim was a 'good performance' was Newcastle away in the CC? He, like everybody else was pretty poor in the first 90 minutes. And since Negredo scored first in a 0-2 win then technically Negredo won us the match. No doubt you'll say he wouldn't have scored without the mighty Dzeko's presence.noise said:Dzeko's last full match was also a good performance. He won us the game. But bringing up the examples of games where he absolutely dominated is just that, an example to help me illustrate the point.pudge said:If that's what you take from that then it proves your ignorant responses are just the norm, pity, thought you were more than that.noise said:Wow, you're seriously being delusional, if you think your response even registered. I don't even read half of your posts. Because it's usually semantics arguments which have nothing to do with football.
If you think these two matches are the only two good matches Dzeko had, well I got nothing to say. That says enough anyone needs to know.. :)
You yourself referenced just one match in your drawn out post the previous page, wonder which it was and why?
I'm merely highlighting that with Dzeko, it often lies with many hanging onto the past. I.e. Spurs away, the goal vs QPR, Newcastle at home this season, even his Wolfsburg days!
That says a lot about his level of performance this season as well as previous ones.
You keep on hanging on though.
What is one supposed to do, mention ever other game Dzeko played well each time, we mention one? He was our best league scorer last season. Surely there were some decent games there as well.
Yet this is exactly what I am talking about. You're making an argument out of nothing. You're arguing semantics, which have nothing to do with Dzeko or football. This is why most people if they are smart pass on reading your drivel, lol.
And I am going to follow my own advice :P
"Dzeko still has better skills as a striker, particularly shooting ability", not true at all. The statistics show that Dzeko has more shots on goal per game than Negredo and yet has scored less goals per game. No doubt all his fanboi's will claim Negredo's are all tap ins.BosnianDiamond said:To be honest, Aguero and Negredo are playing so well together I wouldn't change the lineup if I was Pellegrini. However, I hope Dzeko will get his chance eventually and take advantage of it. If he had Negredo's mentality he would totally dominate. Dzeko still has better skills as a striker, particularly shooting ability, but it's the mental aspect of his game and his work rate that has prevented him from solidifying his role as a starter.
You posted nothing but 'epl' statistics.bandwagon said:pudge said:Or....bandwagon said:read the last 200 pages.
You could finally address that we play games outside of the league? If not, why would people listen and 'stop slagging' if you're just going to cherry pick?
If anything you're slagging Negredo...
or you can read my last few posts in which i mention the champions league and the capital one cup.
better to not argue with me if you're illiterate.
bandwagon said:negredo 4 goals in 10 epl games.
dzeko 3 goals in 6 epl games.
nuff said.
bandwagon said:winning a headed ball ? im not sure what you mean .
anyway. these are epl stats.
dzeko - 112 minutes per goal
negredo - 134 minutes per goal
dzeko - 337 minutes per assist
negredo - 268 minutes per assist
dzeko passing accuracy - 81%
negredo passing accuracy 71%
as you can see, dzeko's passing and scoring rate is better than negredo. they said that dzeko can't pass ?
bandwagon said:not true.
he has made 80 passes in his 6 epl games.
negredo made 132 passes in his 10 epl games.
bandwagon said:i bet edin would improve his stats if he played vs cska moscow.
as for the capital one cup, edin did very well, 2 goals and 1 assist in 2 games. he pretty much won the newcastle (away) game on his own.
I am basing my assessment on Edin Dzeko's body of work in his entire career...not just with City. Dzeko used to be more clinical than he is currently which is due to a confidence level. That is why I said his biggest problem while at City has been psychological. If we are talking about raw physical skills, Dzeko is a better striker of the ball with both feet.ColinLee said:"Dzeko still has better skills as a striker, particularly shooting ability", not true at all. The statistics show that Dzeko has more shots on goal per game than Negredo and yet has scored less goals per game. No doubt all his fanboi's will claim Negredo's are all tap ins.BosnianDiamond said:To be honest, Aguero and Negredo are playing so well together I wouldn't change the lineup if I was Pellegrini. However, I hope Dzeko will get his chance eventually and take advantage of it. If he had Negredo's mentality he would totally dominate. Dzeko still has better skills as a striker, particularly shooting ability, but it's the mental aspect of his game and his work rate that has prevented him from solidifying his role as a starter.
BosnianDiamond said:I am basing my assessment on Edin Dzeko's body of work in his entire career...not just with City. Dzeko used to be more clinical than he is currently which is due to a confidence level. That is why I said his biggest problem while at City has been psychological. If we are talking about raw physical skills, Dzeko is a better striker of the ball with both feet.ColinLee said:"Dzeko still has better skills as a striker, particularly shooting ability", not true at all. The statistics show that Dzeko has more shots on goal per game than Negredo and yet has scored less goals per game. No doubt all his fanboi's will claim Negredo's are all tap ins.BosnianDiamond said:To be honest, Aguero and Negredo are playing so well together I wouldn't change the lineup if I was Pellegrini. However, I hope Dzeko will get his chance eventually and take advantage of it. If he had Negredo's mentality he would totally dominate. Dzeko still has better skills as a striker, particularly shooting ability, but it's the mental aspect of his game and his work rate that has prevented him from solidifying his role as a starter.
Exactly, Dzeko really hasn't had a consistent run of football since his first season here.football-fan said:BosnianDiamond said:I am basing my assessment on Edin Dzeko's body of work in his entire career...not just with City. Dzeko used to be more clinical than he is currently which is due to a confidence level. That is why I said his biggest problem while at City has been psychological. If we are talking about raw physical skills, Dzeko is a better striker of the ball with both feet.ColinLee said:"Dzeko still has better skills as a striker, particularly shooting ability", not true at all. The statistics show that Dzeko has more shots on goal per game than Negredo and yet has scored less goals per game. No doubt all his fanboi's will claim Negredo's are all tap ins.
I agree on everything said here. People forgets easily that sitting on the bench for more than half year damage every player atributes ( especaly stirikers ). ALL players 100 % will lose some of his form or finishing skils if not played regullary. At Dzeko it is almost 3 years of not playing regular. The fact that he is still as good finisher if not better than Negredo speaks for it self really
And yes i fully agree that his main problem is psyhological/EGO isue.
ColinLee said:Surely his last full match that you claim was a 'good performance' was Newcastle away in the CC? He, like everybody else was pretty poor in the first 90 minutes. And since Negredo scored first in a 0-2 win then technically Negredo won us the match. No doubt you'll say he wouldn't have scored without the mighty Dzeko's presence.
Of course you never let any actual facts get in the way of a good delusional post do you?
And I'm pretty sure the cat gif was pointed at you as much as anyone else.
CaliforniaBlue said:ColinLee said:Surely his last full match that you claim was a 'good performance' was Newcastle away in the CC? He, like everybody else was pretty poor in the first 90 minutes. And since Negredo scored first in a 0-2 win then technically Negredo won us the match. No doubt you'll say he wouldn't have scored without the mighty Dzeko's presence.
Of course you never let any actual facts get in the way of a good delusional post do you?
And I'm pretty sure the cat gif was pointed at you as much as anyone else.
Oh dear, here we go again - I keep promising myself not to get involved (similar to discussions of politics and religion), but having just found a stats site called "WhoScored.com" that shows pretty extensive player stats for every game, I just have to make a few points about the Newcastle game and this ongoing (borderline pointless) discussion (though "disussion" is really far too grown-up a title for it).
1. Reading comments on here during and immediately after the Newcastle game, the consensus was that the whole team was poor, and that Dzeko was probably one of the poorer players out there. In contrast, Negredo did okay and was one of the bright spots of the evening, especially as he won the game for us.
2. When I saw the game later that evening, I was unsurprised to find that in my view the team didn't play that badly (admittedly, knowing the result probably made me a lot less critical of individual errors) and that Dzeko actually played pretty well relative to the others.
3. If you look at the stats for that game "http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/782334/LiveStatistics/England-League-Cup-2013-2014-Newcastle-United-Manchester-City", Dzeko comes out as the man of the match. This is presumably based on some formula the site has developed involving all the different stats it collects, and is absolutely open for debate, but it is presumably the same formula they use for every game, and wasn't devised by a group of City-hating Bosnian Dzeko fanboys after the fact to make him look good.
4. It's pretty clear to me that Dzeko's performances are now being viewed in a negative light based on people's preconceptions (which may or may not be accurate - that's another discussion entirely). It's the same idea as blaming a woman driver for a car accident based on the preconception that women drivers aren't very good. The premise may or may not be true, but if you want to know who caused a particular accident, you need to look at the circumstances of the accident without any preconceptions - legal systems work like this for good reason.
5. If any good performances he has are always viewed in as negative a way as possible, the poor guy doesn't have any chance to change people's minds. The preconceptions become self-fulfilling.
If any of this makes you wonder if you're being a bit harsh on the lad, try this exercise; when Aguero or Negredo do something wrong (miss a chance, give the ball away, etc.) ask yourself how you'd react if Dzeko did the same. If your immediate response is; "yes, but it wouldn't be the first time for Dzeko, he's always doing that sort of thing", you're already doing it wrong. You have to judge that particular incident on its own. Was it forgivable or was it a bad play? If it was forgivable (a difficult chance, nothing else on, unlucky, etc.) then it should be forgivable for everyone. If it was bad (should've passed, poor technique, etc.) then it should be bad for everyone. And if Dzeko does something good, don't just dismiss it as "that was a great play, but it's the first time he's done it all season" or " not bad, but Aguero would've done better". Instead give him the credit for it. If you do this for a few games I guarantee you'll have a fairer picture of how good or bad our players are. You may still think Dzeko is clearly our third choice striker - I have no argument with you if that's your opinion based on an unbiased assessment.
And before anyone replies with the common refrain; "I only criticize him because of the OTT adulation from annoying fanboys", that's really only a justification for criticizing the posters, not the player. If your dislike for a player's fans makes you unreasonably critical of the player, you're really no better than the people you criticize for being unreasonably laudatory.
football-fan said:BosnianDiamond said:I am basing my assessment on Edin Dzeko's body of work in his entire career...not just with City. Dzeko used to be more clinical than he is currently which is due to a confidence level. That is why I said his biggest problem while at City has been psychological. If we are talking about raw physical skills, Dzeko is a better striker of the ball with both feet.ColinLee said:"Dzeko still has better skills as a striker, particularly shooting ability", not true at all. The statistics show that Dzeko has more shots on goal per game than Negredo and yet has scored less goals per game. No doubt all his fanboi's will claim Negredo's are all tap ins.
I agree on everything said here. People forgets easily that sitting on the bench for more than half year damage every player atributes ( especaly stirikers ). ALL players 100 % will lose some of his form or finishing skils if not played regullary. At Dzeko it is almost 3 years of not playing regular. The fact that he is still as good finisher if not better than Negredo speaks for it self really
And yes i fully agree that his main problem is psyhological/EGO isue.
This should be a sticky on every page of this thread.CaliforniaBlue said:ColinLee said:Surely his last full match that you claim was a 'good performance' was Newcastle away in the CC? He, like everybody else was pretty poor in the first 90 minutes. And since Negredo scored first in a 0-2 win then technically Negredo won us the match. No doubt you'll say he wouldn't have scored without the mighty Dzeko's presence.
Of course you never let any actual facts get in the way of a good delusional post do you?
And I'm pretty sure the cat gif was pointed at you as much as anyone else.
Oh dear, here we go again - I keep promising myself not to get involved (similar to discussions of politics and religion), but having just found a stats site called "WhoScored.com" that shows pretty extensive player stats for every game, I just have to make a few points about the Newcastle game and this ongoing (borderline pointless) discussion (though "disussion" is really far too grown-up a title for it).
1. Reading comments on here during and immediately after the Newcastle game, the consensus was that the whole team was poor, and that Dzeko was probably one of the poorer players out there. In contrast, Negredo did okay and was one of the bright spots of the evening, especially as he won the game for us.
2. When I saw the game later that evening, I was unsurprised to find that in my view the team didn't play that badly (admittedly, knowing the result probably made me a lot less critical of individual errors) and that Dzeko actually played pretty well relative to the others.
3. If you look at the stats for that game "http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/782334/LiveStatistics/England-League-Cup-2013-2014-Newcastle-United-Manchester-City", Dzeko comes out as the man of the match. This is presumably based on some formula the site has developed involving all the different stats it collects, and is absolutely open for debate, but it is presumably the same formula they use for every game, and wasn't devised by a group of City-hating Bosnian Dzeko fanboys after the fact to make him look good.
4. It's pretty clear to me that Dzeko's performances are now being viewed in a negative light based on people's preconceptions (which may or may not be accurate - that's another discussion entirely). It's the same idea as blaming a woman driver for a car accident based on the preconception that women drivers aren't very good. The premise may or may not be true, but if you want to know who caused a particular accident, you need to look at the circumstances of the accident without any preconceptions - legal systems work like this for good reason.
5. If any good performances he has are always viewed in as negative a way as possible, the poor guy doesn't have any chance to change people's minds. The preconceptions become self-fulfilling.
If any of this makes you wonder if you're being a bit harsh on the lad, try this exercise; when Aguero or Negredo do something wrong (miss a chance, give the ball away, etc.) ask yourself how you'd react if Dzeko did the same. If your immediate response is; "yes, but it wouldn't be the first time for Dzeko, he's always doing that sort of thing", you're already doing it wrong. You have to judge that particular incident on its own. Was it forgivable or was it a bad play? If it was forgivable (a difficult chance, nothing else on, unlucky, etc.) then it should be forgivable for everyone. If it was bad (should've passed, poor technique, etc.) then it should be bad for everyone. And if Dzeko does something good, don't just dismiss it as "that was a great play, but it's the first time he's done it all season" or " not bad, but Aguero would've done better". Instead give him the credit for it. If you do this for a few games I guarantee you'll have a fairer picture of how good or bad our players are. You may still think Dzeko is clearly our third choice striker - I have no argument with you if that's your opinion based on an unbiased assessment.
And before anyone replies with the common refrain; "I only criticize him because of the OTT adulation from annoying fanboys", that's really only a justification for criticizing the posters, not the player. If your dislike for a player's fans makes you unreasonably critical of the player, you're really no better than the people you criticize for being unreasonably laudatory.