England v Italy | Nations League | Sat 11th June '22

Bantamgaz said:
That final and semi final should have you worried going forward he’s proven not once but twice he simply ain’t good enough to win us a major tournament ............
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In fairness, he's come closer than any England coach in history, apart from Ramsey obviously.
 
Bantamgaz said:
That final and semi final should have you worried going forward he’s proven not once but twice he simply ain’t good enough to win us a major tournament ............
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They lost the final on penalties.

When he took over after Euro 2016 they explicitly stated the goal long term was the 2022 WC. Still on that timeline.

International football tournaments don't exist in their own individual bubbles. Squad chemistry and players are still developed as the years go. They turned an embarrassing performance in 2016 into a semifinal in 2018. They then improved on that to make the final in 2020/2021. And again, lost in a shootout.


As English fans we need to stop acting like it's win or bust every single year for a team that hadn't made a final since 1966. We acted like the "Golden Generation" were a dead cert and they failed because they were primadonnas who couldn't leave club rivalries behind to play together.

Whatever you think of the style of play (which is pretty classic lower Prem "defend the lead at all costs" stuff, and its not exactly the most entertaining thing I've ever seen) or even Southgates credentials (I didn't want him when he came in) you cant argue the squad chemistry and belief in the managers philosophy is better than its been in a long time (Hodgson was dead in the water after Euro 2012 and Capello lost the dressing room before the tournament even started in 2010)

If you want to stamp your feet and say we should win every year that's cool. But managing your expectations and looking at the bigger picture is a far less strenuous way of approaching the England team.
 
jamielowndes said:
Nobody cares about the Nations League.
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This is true. And most of them last night looked like they couldn't care less, understandably. But personally I want England to win at everything. Regardless of the significance of the game I want my country to be the best, to be the shining example set for others to follow.
Waistcoat Woy should have taken the shackles off last night, and at the very very least tell the players to have a go.
It's a meaningless, money-driven tournament that as you rightly pointed out nobody cares about, so he should have basically said, "Fuck it. Go for 'em," for his own sake. For his own image amongst football fans. But as usual he was overly cautious and kept our attacking players on a close leash. He's not a fool, and he knows full well because of his dreadful football we'll win nothing -again- and he'll get booted out with a monstrously huge payout and become a pundit.
The man had nothing to lose by being adventurous, but once again he bottled it.
 
KentBlue said:
This is true. And most of them last night looked like they couldn't care less, understandably. But personally I want England to win at everything. Regardless of the significance of the game I want my country to be the best, to be the shining example set for others to follow.
Waistcoat Woy should have taken the shackles off last night, and at the very very least tell the players to have a go.
It's a meaningless, money-driven tournament that as you rightly pointed out nobody cares about, so he should have basically said, "Fuck it. Go for 'em," for his own sake. For his own image amongst football fans. But as usual he was overly cautious and kept our attacking players on a close leash. He's not a fool, and he knows full well because of his dreadful football we'll win nothing -again- and he'll get booted out with a monstrously huge payout and become a pundit.
The man had nothing to lose by being adventurous, but once again he bottled it.
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I dont disagree with your approach and playing like there was nothing to lose might not have been a bad idea.

Unfortunately that goes against Southgates style, where not conceding precedes scoring. His entire philosophy is built around being airtight in defense and squeezing goals from set pieces. Of course that doesn't always work, but no tactical style does.


Part of me also thinks that the players have just come off a full season and now they're playing in a tournament that literally only exists as a replacement to friendlies. They weren't going to go balls to the wall for this.
 
KentBlue said:
I don't think anybody expects us to win every year, but we do expect a manager who will send the players out to try and win the game, not settle for a draw before a ball is kicked.
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Every year half the country build us up into this mythical worldbeater only to eb disappointed that we don't reach a standard that they decided on.

For Southgate to go out and play Guardiola possession ball or Klopps gegenpress defies his own managerial style. What he has done has been relatively effective so far.

It's been fucking boring at times, but its all he knows as a tactician.

Personally I'd see how we do this year and assess from there. If we make the semis minimum, there is at the least an argument to let him stay on. If not, they don't need to outright fire him ASAP but assess whether there is someone else who can take them over the hurdle.


And that doesn't mean bringing in the next relatively young English flavour of the month either.
 
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