England wasting one of the most talented squads ever assembled on Southgate

supercity88 said:
This "best squad since" nonsense has been said for as long as I can remember. This squad isn't a patch on those in the early-mid 2000s. We've got Stones, Kane and Walker who you'd say are world class. There are many players who are emerging talents with the potential to reach those heights - Foden, Saka, Bellingham, Rice but this squad isn't a patch on those with the likes of Owen, Rooney, Lampard, Gerrard, Scholes, Ferdinand, Terry, Cole who were all in the top 10 in the world in their positions.
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I beg to differ. I used to watch those players you name give the ball away time after time when playing in an England shirt.
 
Ithryn Luin said:
Keep going with your happy clapping! This is the best and most talented squad of players at our disposal since 1970. And like Ramsey in the 1970 QF we have a manager whose in game management is none existent! That is why we lose the big ones that matters! Hodgson and Eriksson were both the same, being out guiled by their opposition.
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It's not really happy clapping though is it. It's facts tbf.

I mean if you look at the facts he's our most successful manager since 66.

If anything its haters rather than happy clappers that seem to be the odd ones.

Respect to your opinion though, as long as its not personal hatred above recognising a successful manager. (Compared with who has managed England before, and 90% of other international managers whom he has been better than)

I'm no supporter of him, his style is too pragmatic, it gets results though and having watched England since 86 I'm enjoying the success we're finally having.
 
Ithryn Luin said:
I beg to differ. I used to watch those players you name give the ball away time after time when playing in an England shirt.
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You can't beg to differ with facts. They were world class players who didn't perform for England because....you guessed it, the manager's weren't good enough to find a system for them to perform in or get any togetherness from the squad.

Southgate has addressed that. You don't have City players rocking up and refusing to speak to those from other teams. Even though Foden and Grealish are part of a treble winning side you don't get them refusing to turn up for England duty or whingeing about not playing.

And you can't tell me that this England squad is better than the one I listed. Who are the world class talents? Stones, Walker and Kane. Bellingham, Foden, Saka and Rice have that potential but simply aren't at that level yet. If you took the England squad I listed you'd struggle to get many of the current squad into that 11.
 
Many people feel the same way as I do: Southgate's tactics just stifle the life out of the creative players. It's dull, it's tepid, and it's safety-first all the time.
Sure, he's done okay(ish), but personally I just could not sit through 90 minutes of his soul-destroying 'pass-sideways-or-backwards' tactic.
 
KentBlue said:
Many people feel the same way as I do: Southgate's tactics just stifle the life out of the creative players. It's dull, it's tepid, and it's safety-first all the time.
Sure, he's done okay(ish), but personally I just could not sit through 90 minutes of his soul-destroying 'pass-sideways-or-backwards' tactic.
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If the best results in 50 years is 'okay(ish)' you are clearly a tough person to satisfy!

If England managed to win the Euros or World Cup (even if by a fluke) then there won't be many people saying that the victory doesn't mean anything to them because they didn't like the style of football.

So, to be clear, the bar for calling Southgate as success is not only to win a major tournament but he must also do it whilst playing attractive football? Anything else is failure. Glad I don't have the job.
 
supercity88 said:
You can't beg to differ with facts. They were world class players who didn't perform for England because....you guessed it, the manager's weren't good enough to find a system for them to perform in or get any togetherness from the squad.

Southgate has addressed that. You don't have City players rocking up and refusing to speak to those from other teams. Even though Foden and Grealish are part of a treble winning side you don't get them refusing to turn up for England duty or whingeing about not playing.

And you can't tell me that this England squad is better than the one I listed. Who are the world class talents? Stones, Walker and Kane. Bellingham, Foden, Saka and Rice have that potential but simply aren't at that level yet. If you took the England squad I listed you'd struggle to get many of the current squad into that 11.
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Have to agree to disagree then. Those you list would not get in todays City team. Thankfully todays England players are nearly all comfortable on the ball in possession. Ok I will agree that there is none of the clique culture today but again that was down to the rotten personalities of those players back then. I did not think any of those players you listed were "world class".
 
Ithryn Luin said:
Have to agree to disagree then. Those you list would not get in todays City team. Thankfully todays England players are nearly all comfortable on the ball in possession. Ok I will agree that there is none of the clique culture today but again that was down to the rotten personalities of those players back then. I did not think any of those players you listed were "world class".
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Several of those players get in the current City side. All of them were world class. That squad is better than this one, that's unarguable. Football has evolved but those players were all much better when compared to those from other countries than this current squad. They weren't rotten personalities either. They were committed to club football and the England managers were unable to create an environment of unity and commitment to the national team, in combination with being tactical incapable of getting the best out of them.

What Southgate has achieved with this squad over the past few tournaments is very good. I feel like he's benefitted from some favourable draws and he definitely isn't as tactically astute as many other managers, but whilst someone else could improve on that side, it's no guarantee they'd be able to create the same team environment and that plays a huge part in things.
 
KentBlue said:
Many people feel the same way as I do: Southgate's tactics just stifle the life out of the creative players. It's dull, it's tepid, and it's safety-first all the time.
Sure, he's done okay(ish), but personally I just could not sit through 90 minutes of his soul-destroying 'pass-sideways-or-backwards' tactic.
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We've just won 7-0, we score plenty of goals both in qualifying and tournaments. He is defence minded but it doesn't stifle our creative players. The main issue with this side remains the defence, not the attack.
 
SkyBlueFlux said:
I don't think Southgate should be judged for not winning World Cups. I think most managers would fail at that.

He should be judged for his style of play and how fun England are to watch, given most of our time watching England play is more recreational than competitive.

And if you think England are fun to watch... well fair enough, but personally I'd rather spend the time doing the dishes.
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What countries are ‘fun’ to watch on a regular basis ?
 
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