EU Referendum Thread

[Metal Biker]

Fully expect we'll vote to stay in, the same old dumb people will be conned by the same old scare stories

Everything the government and its business buddies desire is always greased with 'the sky will fall' rhetoric. Always has. Always will.

I'm slightly more optimistic, using the Scottish Referendum as a case in point. Before there was talk of a referendum on independence in Scotland the consensus was around about 25-30% in favour of independence with the rest either in favour or apathetic. It was only after people began talking about the issues, debating the pros and cons that that figure shot up with more and more people believing in the merits of an independent Scotland and resulted in 44.7% wanting independence with a high turnout.

Having the debate about the EU, it's pros and cons, aims and policies that many people are unaware of could easily be enough to swing the vote in favour of the UK leaving the EU. We just need to start having the debate. Note that the Europhiles want the debate over and done with quickly because they know that, if probed enough, the flaws in the regime will come spewing out and negative opinion will skyrocket.

 

[Rascal]

I'm slightly more optimistic, using the Scottish Referendum as a case in point. Before there was talk of a referendum on independence in Scotland the consensus was around about 25-30% in favour of independence with the rest either in favour or apathetic. It was only after people began talking about the issues, debating the pros and cons that that figure shot up with more and more people believing in the merits of an independent Scotland and resulted in 44.7% wanting independence with a high turnout.

Having the debate about the EU, it's pros and cons, aims and policies that many people are unaware of could easily be enough to swing the vote in favour of the UK leaving the EU. We just need to start having the debate. Note that the Europhiles want the debate over and done with quickly because they know that, if probed enough, the flaws in the regime will come spewing out and negative opinion will skyrocket.

Seeing as most of the stuff i read is anti EU and the anti EU people are passionate about leaving, it would suprise me if the Pro EU people could put forward a convincing argument to stay in.

What will be fun is seeing what the next thing on the agenda is for the nutjob wing of the Tory party. If they havent got the EU to moan about they could be dangerous.

 

[Metal Biker]

Seeing as most of the stuff i read is anti EU and the anti EU people are passionate about leaving, it would suprise me if the Pro EU people could put forward a convincing argument to stay in.

What will be fun is seeing what the next thing on the agenda is for the nutjob wing of the Tory party. If they havent got the EU to moan about they could be dangerous.

People do appear more passionate to leave than to stay in, i've noticed. Passion often rules the roost in debates (Scottish indyref as an example) which I hope doesn't happen this time.

If the UK does leave, I hope it will be because of informed decisions and mature debate over anti-EU ferver. Regarding the Tories, if you accept what Junckers recently said, he believes Cameron is using the Referendum to solidify the UK's place within the EU. That could turn nasty amongst the Eurosceptics within the party.

 

[urmston]

What a pity Tony Benn has left us.

He saw through the EU.

"My view of the EU has always been not that I am hostile to foreigners but I am in favour of democracy. I think they are building an empire and want us to be part of that empire, and I don't want that."

"When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious what they had in mind was not democratic. In Britain, you vote for a government so the government has to listen to you, and if you don't like it you can change it."

 

[Rascal]

What a pity Tony Benn has left us.

He saw through the EU.

"My view of the EU has always been not that I am hostile to foreigners but I am in favour of democracy. I think they are building an empire and want us to be part of that empire, and I don't want that."

"When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious what they had in mind was not democratic. In Britain, you vote for a government so the government has to listen to you, and if you don't like it you can change it."

Indeed a great shame for the out campaign. A man of Benns ability, decency and honesty would have made him perfect to lead such a campaign. Instead it is likely to be lead by the intellectual pygmy that is Farage.

 

[DelToro]

Indeed a great shame for the out campaign. A man of Benns ability, decency and honesty would have made him perfect to lead such a campaign. Instead it is likely to be lead by the intellectual pygmy that is Farage.

He is surprisingly small.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

What a pity Tony Benn has left us.

He saw through the EU.

"My view of the EU has always been not that I am hostile to foreigners but I am in favour of democracy. I think they are building an empire and want us to be part of that empire, and I don't want that."

"When I saw how the European Union was developing, it was very obvious what they had in mind was not democratic. In Britain, you vote for a government so the government has to listen to you, and if you don't like it you can change it."

Yes, Tony was right then and he'd be right now. The amount of left leaning folk I know, who are also for this country leaving the EU, is significant.

 

[Rascal]

Yes, Tony was right then and he'd be right now. The amount of left leaning folk I know, who are also for this country leaving the EU, is significant.

The ones of the left who favour out do so for very different reasons to those on the right.

That such a broad coalition would be needed makes the out campaign a tricky one. Many leftists would not tolerate Farage rhetoric for instance.

 

[Ancient Citizen]

The ones of the left who favour out do so for very different reasons to those on the right.

That such a broad coalition would be needed makes the out campaign a tricky one. Many leftists would not tolerate Farage rhetoric for instance.

I accept that the reasons behind it are totally different, and also that the estimable Tony Benn's rhetoric would be far better constructed, but I'm of the opinion, that come the referendum, we will be out,
because of this extremely unusual coalition.

 

[urmston]

Handing power to faceless and unelected bureaucrats in Brussels harms democracy and accountability.

As Benn said, joining the EU was 'the most formal surrender of British sovereignty and parliamentary democracy that has ever occurred in our history'.

Of course this is not a problem to the big state, bureaucracy loving, referendum hating types who often work for the big state and its bureaucracies, and have a low opinion of the views of the broad mass of the people.

Nor is a problem for big business, as it prefers dealing with a central, European authority for its own selfish convenience, not ours.

But for anyone who loves democracy, the EU and all remote power is a threat to our democratic freedom to do as we choose, and to make, alter and scrap our laws as we see fit.

PS. It is also an economic basket case with low growth, high unemployment and increasing levels of political extremism.