EU Referendum Thread

[aguero93:20]

We've tried that. The EU have stated they will not entertain ideas for reform.

People are angry that the way the EU is conducting its business goes against everything that the European nations signed up for; having pointed this out to them they tell us that they will continue onward with their policies regardless of what the people think. TTIP, the Irish Vote, the Dutch Vote, EU Army, unelected commissioners. We didn't sign up to be governed.

On your own. I'm telling you now from good info that the UK government have made no attempts to get Ireland onside to push for reform and if you haven't asked us then you haven't asked any of the other sceptic countries.

 

[urmston]

Which is exactly what you will have right next door as a competitor (and a huge one at that, with far more economic power than the UK) if you leave.

The UK should be placing itself at the head of the countries that want reform and making itself a force for change and the balancing power within the EU.
Not throwing a childish sulk and threatening to leave if they and only they, don't get special treatment.

What is childish about freely negotiating your relationship with an organisation and deciding to leave if it doesn't suit your needs as you see them?

It is much more childish for other countries and their leaders to insist that we stay in, abide by their rules, keep quiet and be grateful.

That is much more obstinate and unreasonable, just as a toddler can be when he doesn't get his way.

The arrogance of EU leaders will be a great boost for the Out vote in our referendum.

 

[aguero93:20]

What is childish about freely negotiating your relationship with an organisation and deciding to leave if it doesn't suit your needs as you see them?

It is much more childish for other countries and their leaders to insist that we stay in, abide by their rules, keep quiet and be grateful.

That is much more obstinate and unreasonable, just as a toddler can be when he doesn't get his way.

The arrogance of EU leaders will be a great boost for the Out vote in our referendum.

It's even more childish to completely and deliberately misinterpret a post to suit your own petty point of view.

 

[Metal Biker]

On your own. I'm telling you now from good info that the UK government have made no attempts to get Ireland onside to push for reform and if you haven't asked us then you haven't asked any of the other sceptic countries.

The UK asking Ireland to join them in something political. Yeah, that'd end well. We already know what the answer would be.

"Stay UK and have influence in the EU!", supporters cry. Exactly what influence has the UK had in the EU? EVERY request Cameron has made has been shot down and overruled. I am unfased in the belief that the EU is petrified of the UK leaving, based on the rhetoric so far. If you aren't bothered about the UK staying, then why try and convince us to do so? Because you're worried about what will happen to the people living in this country? Don't worry, it won't be your concern. "The UK won't have influence!" I hear pro-EU supporters shout. Why would you care about that?

 

[aguero93:20]

The UK asking Ireland to join them in something political. Yeah, that'd end well. We already know what the answer would be.

I don't know, maybe it would end like the British-Irish Council, the British- Irish parliamentary body, the Common Travel Area, the Good Friday Agreement, the All-Islands Approach energy pact, the military Memorandum of Understanding, the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conferences, or maybe you're right and everyone on both islands lives 100 years in the past and sticks their fingers in their ears whenever the other side tries to communicate.

Nil point.

 

[Metal Biker]

I don't know, maybe it would end like the British-Irish Council, the British- Irish parliamentary body, the Common Travel Area, the Good Friday Agreement, the All-Islands Approach energy pact, the military Memorandum of Understanding, the British-Irish Intergovernmental Conferences, or maybe you're right and everyone on both islands lives 100 years in the past and sticks their fingers in their ears whenever the other side tries to communicate.

Nil point.

The ignorance is more widespread across these islands than you care to acknowledge.

Acting like it isn't there is naive. The Irish would only back a reform to keep the UK a member of the EU. That's not what we want now. We want to leave, govern ourselves, but trade with the EU. The Lisbon Treaty stipulates we must be offered that. (The treaty the Irish voted against, that was then rejected by the EU and a few changes were made, told to vote again, and voted yes, only this time MORE people turned out to ensure the result was 'correct')

 

[urmston]

It's even more childish to completely and deliberately misinterpret a post to suit your own petty point of view.

I didn't misinterpret anything.

I certainly don't misinterpret your quick irritation with anyone who doesn't agree with you.

Why not be cool, calm and reasonable like me and other anti-EU types?

 

[aguero93:20]

The ignorance is more widespread across these islands than you care to acknowledge.

Acting like it isn't there is naive. The Irish would only back a reform to keep the UK a member of the EU. That's not what we want now. We want to leave, govern ourselves, but trade with the EU. The Lisbon Treaty stipulates we must be offered that.

Among everyday people but not along the political class.

The Lisbon Treaty states no such thing. It states that a withdrawal agreement must be negotiated.

 

[Metal Biker]

Among everyday people but not along the political class.

The Lisbon Treaty states no such thing. It states that a withdrawal agreement must be negotiated.

Yeeeees.....that's what I mean. And our political classes are meant to represent the opinions of the people, otheriwse they are corrupting their status to act on their own.

The Lisbon Treaty (Which we were not given a vote on, or even a choice to have a vote) means we can negotiate a trade agreement after we leave. Others will have you believe that once the UK is out, we're out. No negotiations, no trading agreements, nada. Naturally, the EU could tell the UK to do one, but people think that if we leave, that's it. This is what I mean by scaremongering. Most people aren't aware that upon leaving, the UK must be offered a negotiation to the terms of our leaving. They assume that we leave, we shut the door.

Its why debate on the issue is important. Just look at how fervently they even tried to deny us the right to a referendum using terms such as "the general public are too ignorant or too misinformed" to decide such an important issue. It is this sort of arrogance that has created many of the Eurosceptics across the continent. It was meant to be a trading union where we share a common interest, co-operation and cohesion, NOT to be governed by an unelected elite which creates laws in an effort to forcibly 'unify' us as something we're not, losing our right to self-determination in the process. The EU project is only half complete; I want out before we reach the point of no return.

 

[aguero93:20]

Yeeeees.....that's what I mean. And our political classes are meant to represent the opinions of the people, otheriwse they are corrupting their status to act on their own.

The Lisbon Treaty (Which we were not given a vote on, or even a choice to have a vote) means we can negotiate a trade agreement after we leave. Others will have you believe that once the UK is out, we're out. No negotiations, no trading agreements, nada. Naturally, the EU could tell the UK to do one, but people think that if we leave that's it.

This is what I mean by scaremongering. Most people aren't aware that upon leaving the UK must be offered a negotiation to the terms of our leaving. They assume that we leave, we shut the door.
Its why debate on the issue is important. Just look at how fervently they even tried to deny us the right to a referendum using terms such as "the general public are too ignorant or too misinformed" to decide such an important issue. It is this sort of arrogance that has created many of the Eurosceptics across the continent. It was meant to be a trading union where we share a common interest, co-operation and cohesion, NOT to be governed by an unelected elite which creates laws in an effort to forcibly 'unify' us as something we're not, losing our right to self-determination. The EU project is only half complete; I want out before we reach the point of no return.

I agree completely that you should be offered a referendum.

You might want to look at that treaty again, it only states that the EU and leaving member state shall reach an agreement about dates of leaving and dates that treaties no longer hold the state. Nothing about trade there.
However it does state(along with previous treaties) that any country wishing to enter into a trade agreement with the EU must abide by all relevant conditions in EU treaties.