EU Referendum Thread

[Metal Biker]

I agree completely that you should be offered a referendum.

You might want to look at that treaty again, it only states that the EU and leaving member state shall reach an agreement about dates of leaving and dates that treaties no longer hold the state. Nothing about trade there.
However it does state(along with previous treaties) that any country wishing to enter into a trade agreement with the EU must abide by all relevant conditions in EU treaties.

And I'd have no issue with that. I'd be happy to accept whatever stipulations and requirements are needed to ensure free trade between the two regions. What I cannot tolerate nor abide is that we are expected to give billions of taxpayers money towards EU projects we are against. TTIP is going ahead despite it's opposition in the UK. They want an EU Army, an EU Police Force. We have no influence to change these decisions. I simply do not wish to have European Commissioners whom I and others had no say in their appointment, have supreme political power over this country and its citizens nor any other country in Europe, to be in a position where they cannot be removed by democratic vote.

The EU wishes to do away with sovereignty and unite us all as one, removing cultural diversity in place of a "European" one. You only have to look at the bloody history between the UK and Ireland to realise the "common people" as we are referred, ignorant as we are, will not stand for that. Our union failed; this one will go the same way, except we will have virtually no chance to escape without resorting to more extreme methods of protest. We wanted reform, the EU said no. We wanted more powers for individual members; the EU Commission overrules all. I fear a Soviet style EU, a point in which it has not yet reached but is aiming towards; Barroso, Juncker and Von Rompuy have all alluded to such. Others don't see the similarities, which is fair enough. Personally I do and although the EU has not reached that status, it is on its way to becoming eerily similar. Worst case scenario would see a Europe tearing itself to pieces when the Union eventually fails, which it will.

 

[stonerblue]

Just look at how fervently they even tried to deny us the right to a referendum using terms such as "the general public are too ignorant or too misinformed" to decide such an important issue.

And they'd be right.

All through this thread you've been saying the public need telling about all kinds of EU shenanigins. Ireland this, trade policy that etc etc.
The whole thing is massively complicated and the majority of us have little or no idea how things work.
You and a couple of other posters seem to know you're stuff but this thread is hardly awash with different posters citing EU policy technicalities, trade agreements or possible financial and social implications of an in/out decision.

I feel i don't know enough at the moment to even consider voting on this issue. Sure most people probably have a single issue reason but this just derails the outcome that a properly informed vote that considers the puzzling multitude of pros and cons should reach.

What we, and by that i mean the general public who haven't spent years studying EU policies, need is solid info on both outcomes of the vote.
Will i keep my job? Will my kids be better or worse off, fairer taxes, social security, new laws and powers our own government introduced? I'd like some clear, non-political info on how these and lots of other areas may change if we stay or leave the union. And i'd like to see it in all popular media in order to educate as many people from as wide a social demographic as possible.

 

[malg]

Does anyone actually believe that we'd vote to leave?

 

[Ducado]

Does anyone actually believe that we'd vote to leave?

It depends on a number of issues, like the popularity of the government at the time (unpopular governments tend to loose referendums (I am sure there is a better plural) no matter what the question), what the media says, there is general antipathy to the EU in the UK, however I think much of it could be dampened down by renegotiating various treaties. I actually think it could be a close run thing

 

[Dave Ewing's Back 'eader]

I'll wait and see if the PM manages to renegotiate anything before I make a decision.

I hope that Cameron is not going to float off to Europe tightlipped, and then come back and say he has got what he went for and, oh, we are recommending that we stay in.

As far as I can see we are paying through the fuckin' nose, ears and anus for membership of this FIFA lookalike bunch. I have yet to hear in concrete terms what we have to lose in withdrawing. I can see how much we would save and the opportunity of making our own decisions instead of having them thrust on you by a bunch who haven't the slightest interest in what happens here, just as long as we keep paying the subs.

 

[roxy]

I wonder if it will be used as a vote of confidence in the government? A lot of Tories will probably vote against staying in, as will all the UKIP voters presumably. If Labour voters are clever, they will also vote against.

 

[Metal Biker]

And they'd be right.

All through this thread you've been saying the public need telling about all kinds of EU shenanigins. Ireland this, trade policy that etc etc.
The whole thing is massively complicated and the majority of us have little or no idea how things work.
You and a couple of other posters seem to know you're stuff but this thread is hardly awash with different posters citing EU policy technicalities, trade agreements or possible financial and social implications of an in/out decision.

I feel i don't know enough at the moment to even consider voting on this issue. Sure most people probably have a single issue reason but this just derails the outcome that a properly informed vote that considers the puzzling multitude of pros and cons should reach.

What we, and by that i mean the general public who haven't spent years studying EU policies, need is solid info on both outcomes of the vote.
Will i keep my job? Will my kids be better or worse off, fairer taxes, social security, new laws and powers our own government introduced? I'd like some clear, non-political info on how these and lots of other areas may change if we stay or leave the union. And i'd like to see it in all popular media in order to educate as many people from as wide a social demographic as possible.

This is exactly the reason WHY people need to be told what the future of being a member of the EU holds for them but from a neutral standpoint.

I could easily say all the things that the EU is planning and put an "eeeevil" spin on in an attempt to sway people into hating the UK being a member, which would be entirely wrong. It is equally as important that those who wish for the UK to remain to stop putting the "EU smells of wine and roses" rhetoric on the plans for the EU, like TTIP for example something many people who support the NHS being free from privatisation often quote in their opposition to it. Facts about the EU NEED to be addressed so that people can either say "actually, the EU doesn't sound that bad and i'd be happy to remain part of it" or "this doesn't sound at all like something I could support or be willing to be associated with.

Refering to the EU in it's current format is pointless because that is not the EU that the Commission wants. It wants more countries to surrender their sovereign powers to them so they can create the Union that they want it to be. It is that Union, that EU, that people should debate about being a part of because that is the EU they are striving for. If it something that appeals then nothing will change your mind, not the naysayers or Eurosceptics. If it is something that goes against your beliefs and morals as to how a country is run and by whome, then no Europhile or pro-EU supporter will change your belief. Rest assured however, that the future EU, whether you support it or not, WILL impact your life and WILL affect you; the question is, is that something that will appeal to you or repulse? I would advise learning what you can and taking an interest. You may find you end up liking the EU more, or you may have a similar mindset to myself and others and come to the conclusion that this is simply not right.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

I wonder if it will be used as a vote of confidence in the government? A lot of Tories will probably vote against staying in, as will all the UKIP voters presumably. If Labour voters are clever, they will also vote against.

Surely if Labour voters are clever they will assess the impact of remaining in or leaving and vote for the option they believe is right for the country. To vote with any ulterior motive would not only be foolish but also possibly disastrous in the long term.

 

[Gelsons Dad]

Junker has already said we will vote to stay in so no point having the referendum now. The president has spoken and we must not question his unelected holiness.

 

[Silva_Spell]

Fully expect we'll vote to stay in, the same old dumb people will be conned by the same old scare stories

Everything the government and its business buddies desire is always greased with 'the sky will fall' rhetoric. Always has. Always will.