EU Referendum Thread

[JULES]

Definitely voting to stay in.

I believe pulling out would be such a risky enterprise. Those who imagine it will have no meaningful impact on our trade with the remaining EU countries, and consequently our economy, are completely wrong imo. Furthermore any such ongoing trade with those countries would be contingent on us complying with all the red tape, so frequently cited by those in favour of withdrawal as a reason for leaving.

To describe leaving as anything other than a huge risk is intellectually dishonest imo.

I'm interested how you think our trade with the EU would be affected if we were to exit? Trade tariffs on UK goods? Restricted access? I'd also be interested to hear how exporters of German cars, French wine and Belgian chocolate would feel when we reciprocate. Remember we import far more from the EU than we export to it. A trade war would be hugely damaging to EU economies and just wouldn't happen. It's just a scare tactic to intimidate people to vote to stay in and if anybody is being intellectually dishonest it's people who are spreading scare stories.

If you think that Germany will just shrug their shoulders if we pull out then you are wrong. They have too much to lose to allow our exit to be painless. It may occur by stealth, rather than in the dramatic fashions to which you referred (although it may well subsequently escalate to those levels) but it simply isn't logical to suggest that our trade can just carry on as if nothing has happened.

You may think it's a price worth paying, and that's fair enough, and you may also feel that we can take the slack up elsewhere in the world, but suggesting our trade with EU countries will be unaffected simply doesn't make sense.

I completely disagree , unfortunately you use the word logical and yet I can find no logic in your points. Business is business, and if you think the germans would like to lose one of their biggest export markets may I suggest you are wrong. The EU has far more to lose by the brexit than the UK. Also as we now live in a world economy with trans global trade a few countries, ( china, USA, Japan, Switzerland..need I go on!) manage quite well without membership to this club we are in

 

[Metal Biker]

If EU reforms to give more power back to sovereign states and local governments, resembling more of a trading union: IN.

If EU refuses to reform and continues to commence with creating a "United States of Europe", in which the officials which create legislations are not voted in by the electorate, so as to persist in building an EU Army, an EU identity, united by an EU flag thus destorying European cultural diversity: OUT, OUT, OUT!

 

[i kne albert davy]

Out worst decision this country ever made was to join a market that made what we did.trading union yes, political union with a German dominated Europe not for me.

 

[gordondaviesmoustache]

I'm interested how you think our trade with the EU would be affected if we were to exit? Trade tariffs on UK goods? Restricted access? I'd also be interested to hear how exporters of German cars, French wine and Belgian chocolate would feel when we reciprocate. Remember we import far more from the EU than we export to it. A trade war would be hugely damaging to EU economies and just wouldn't happen. It's just a scare tactic to intimidate people to vote to stay in and if anybody is being intellectually dishonest it's people who are spreading scare stories.

If you think that Germany will just shrug their shoulders if we pull out then you are wrong. They have too much to lose to allow our exit to be painless. It may occur by stealth, rather than in the dramatic fashions to which you referred (although it may well subsequently escalate to those levels) but it simply isn't logical to suggest that our trade can just carry on as if nothing has happened.

You may think it's a price worth paying, and that's fair enough, and you may also feel that we can take the slack up elsewhere in the world, but suggesting our trade with EU countries will be unaffected simply doesn't make sense.

I completely disagree , unfortunately you use the word logical and yet I can find no logic in your points. Business is business, and if you think the germans would like to lose one of their biggest export markets may I suggest you are wrong. The EU has far more to lose by the brexit than the UK. Also as we now live in a world economy with trans global trade a few countries, ( china, USA, Japan, Switzerland..need I go on!) manage quite well without membership to this club we are in

My logic is simply that to expect our exit from a trading block to have no effect on our subsequent trading levels with the nations within that block simply does not make any sense. To step outside an alliance of 28 countries and to expect our trading levels with those countries collectively and individually to be completely unaltered as a consequence isn't logical.

Business isn't just business. If you think that, then the world is a great deal more complex than you imagine. All companies are subject to laws, regulations and restrictions on their operations. No international business is immune from geopolitical forces.

And I never suggested that the Germans would like to lose one of their biggest export markets. Not sure why you'd deduce that from what I'd posted previously.

 

[foxy]

In. Multinational companies would locate in the EU if we exited.

Leaving would mean you would have comply with regulations without having an input to their enactment.

I believe that people (UKIP) are lobbying for no based on an imagined past that never existed.

Multinationals would gravitate to low-tax, low-regulation regimes, which we would be. We also offer access to the most sophisticated financial services market outside the USA.

I understand what you are saying but I just can't shake the feeling that leaving would be bad for the economy.

It wouldn't, too many EU countries relies on our exports. Levies will have a knock on effect on EU countries.

 

[cibaman]

Multinationals would gravitate to low-tax, low-regulation regimes, which we would be. We also offer access to the most sophisticated financial services market outside the USA.

I understand what you are saying but I just can't shake the feeling that leaving would be bad for the economy.

It wouldn't, too many EU countries relies on our exports. Levies will have a knock on effect on EU countries.

They dont rely on exports to the UK. With the exception of Ireland, the UK is less than 10% of their export market. We rely on the EU which makes up 50% of our export market.

 

[whp.blue]

If you think that Germany will just shrug their shoulders if we pull out then you are wrong. They have too much to lose to allow our exit to be painless. It may occur by stealth, rather than in the dramatic fashions to which you referred (although it may well subsequently escalate to those levels) but it simply isn't logical to suggest that our trade can just carry on as if nothing has happened.

You may think it's a price worth paying, and that's fair enough, and you may also feel that we can take the slack up elsewhere in the world, but suggesting our trade with EU countries will be unaffected simply doesn't make sense.

I completely disagree , unfortunately you use the word logical and yet I can find no logic in your points. Business is business, and if you think the germans would like to lose one of their biggest export markets may I suggest you are wrong. The EU has far more to lose by the brexit than the UK. Also as we now live in a world economy with trans global trade a few countries, ( china, USA, Japan, Switzerland..need I go on!) manage quite well without membership to this club we are in

My logic is simply that to expect our exit from a trading block to have no effect on our subsequent trading levels with the nations within that block simply does not make any sense. To step outside an alliance of 28 countries and to expect our trading levels with those countries collectively and individually to be completely unaltered as a consequence isn't logical.

Business isn't just business. If you think that, then the world is a great deal more complex than you imagine. All companies are subject to laws, regulations and restrictions on their operations. No international business is immune from geopolitical forces.

And I never suggested that the Germans would like to lose one of their biggest export markets. Not sure why you'd deduce that from what I'd posted previously.

People are using trade deficits etc as a scare tactic and forget even if true there are other benefits to coming out

Law making will return to Westminster
We will once again control our borders
We can set our own immigration laws
We will be out of the march towards a European Superstate
are just some of the plus's

 

[mcfc1632]

Between now and the referendum I need (and I suspect the case is true of many others) to get some facts to set against instinctive feelings.

I am with the camp that instinctively feel that if we leave then surely this will be detrimental to our trade etc.

But I have also an instinctive belief that the ever expanding EU increasingly takes on obligations to a greater number of countries whilst the (im)balance of who foots the bill is a limited number of big countries that sees us increasingly footing the bill for the expansionist and idealistic policies and decisions of an unelected bunch of bureaucrats living the high-life.

Crap analogy I admit, but I see the EU hierarchy a little bit like Blatter - guaranteed to get their way because the majority of countries that benefit vote for them and those that should have more say foot the bill.

Also, there has been a German-France axis for so long now that all seems agreed to their direction and we are just a source of funding (another instinctive feeling) - there may be some 'concessions' in the coming year but a yes vote will lock us in for a lifetime and as soon as it happens we will again become simply a source of funding - a country whose position/wealth etc can be used and abused by the un-elected self-serving bigwigs of the EU.

My trust is not with the EU so I am minded to vote out as I cannot see the EU reducing its expansionist aims and we are one of the few footing the bill - not just economically but migration etc.

 

[Gray]

An EU that allows a bankrupt Greece to join, an EU that dishes out money to Spain to build incomplete motorways in the middle of nowhere - not for me.

I am sure there are many more examples like those above, which is why I would vote to leave.

However I suspect we will never get a referendum, it is all smoke and mirrors.

 

[DelToro]

Ich denke, es hängt alles von welchem Fortschritt hängt "Rufen Sie mich Dave" macht in den Verhandlungen. Ich mache mir Sorgen, dass wir am Ende alle deutschsprachigen Raum in der Zukunft.