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Fucking hypocrite
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EU referendum
- Thread starter Ric
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SWP's back
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 29 Jun 2009
- Messages
- 89,084
In the history of iladvised posts on here, it's up there.So chippy boy is a tad dishonest, bit sad really but it takes all sorts I suppose
With trepidation that I may have been filtered....I didn't tell you anything. I asked a question and made a suggestion.
But honestly I have no idea why you or anyone else with a closed mind is even bothering to be on here.
You'll note for my umpteen posts that on several occasions I've said "fair point" or other such comment to someone suggesting an alternative view.
But some people are the equivalent of school children with hands over their ears saying "I'm not listening I'm listening I'm not listening". Well guess what, that's a bit tiresome after a while.
Still, everyone to their own and fortunately we have the ignore button with which we can filter out the dross, so either way I'm not fussed.
I would be surprised if you cannot see from your posts that you appear to most to be an inner because you are nearly always picking arguement with every point an outer makes and countering it with reason to remain, which is fair enough.
The inners cannot give any assurances about anything, even Call me Dave's special deal, that still has to be ratified after we've voted, there is no guarantee it will stick, though it would be tremendously embarrassing if it was rejected. Similarly the outer do not know the detail of what will happen if we were to leave and that my chippy friend is a fact. All we can do is present suppositions and scenarios, and all the inners can do is give scare stories.
As I've posted earlier and been quite explicit, my main reasons for going are (in my opinion):-
1. Security, amongst other security and border control issues, I don't feel that expanding the EU to countries like Turkey is doing anything to secure Europe or making it a safer place.... Why are we letting them join (the fact they play in the CL and join in the Eurovision song contest does not count - I'd be happy to see them kicked out of both. They're a land mass of 5% in Europe 95% in Asia and a population of 75m... what is/are the benefit(s) of allowing Turkey to join?
2. Bureaucracy. We have a very inefficient unelected EU governance process. I don't like the fact that the real seat of power, the EU Comissioners are a government appointed, unelected leadership which directs and controls the EU parliament.
3. Economy. I do not like the fact that we are net contributors to the tune of £8,500 million pounds a year, that after our rebate and the reinvestment into the UK by the EU, our gross contribution is about £19,000 million pounds a year. For example if we wished to sustain a steel industry, we could from the £8.5 bn give£1m a day and still have £8,135m left to use at home. The problem here is once we save that money here is no guarantee that any particular party will reinvest it in the kind of industry and society that we all might wish for.
4. Immigration. I'm afraid that this island has finite resources and whilst we might like to be everyone's knight in shining armour we can't, sadly we dont have the infrastructure nor the finance to be that. It may sound tough and uncaring but it's not, it's reality. For example, the refugee/migrant children that we are now going to take from Europe is not the way to go. If they are desparate enough they will apply for asylum in the first country they come to, they don't. Furthermore, if the rumours being thrown around that children when they get to Europe are being raped and prostituted then I'm afraid that is a Europe that I do not wish to be part of.... Do you? Seriously?
There are many other issues I could attack, such as the Trade Agreements, TTIP, A European Army, to name but a few, but I'll let you counter these points before moving on. Everything above is fact, not speculation, not rumour but fact. Alone, these points are reason enough for me to wish to choose to leave!
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For anyone who wants to examine the claims made on here or elsewhere...
https://fullfact.org/europe/border-security-eu/
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-brussels-bureaucrats/
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-management/
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-migration/
looking forward to see how the more disingenuous of our brethren choose to cherry pick.
https://fullfact.org/europe/border-security-eu/
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-brussels-bureaucrats/
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-management/
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-migration/
looking forward to see how the more disingenuous of our brethren choose to cherry pick.
denislawsbackheel
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- 28 May 2008
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- 26,312
- Team supported
- We went to Rotherham…
With trepidation that I may have been filtered....
I would be surprised if you cannot see from your posts that you appear to most to be an inner because you are nearly always picking arguement with every point an outer makes and countering it with reason to remain, which is fair enough.
The inners cannot give any assurances about anything, even Call me Dave's special deal, that still has to be ratified after we've voted, there is no guarantee it will stick, though it would be tremendously embarrassing if it was rejected. Similarly the outer do not know the detail of what will happen if we were to leave and that my chippy friend is a fact. All we can do is present suppositions and scenarios, and all the inners can do is give scare stories.
As I've posted earlier and been quite explicit, my main reasons for going are (in my opinion):-
1. Security, amongst other security and border control issues, I don't feel that expanding the EU to countries like Turkey is doing anything to secure Europe or making it a safer place.... Why are we letting them join (the fact they play in the CL and join in the Eurovision song contest does not count - I'd be happy to see them kicked out of both. They're a land mass of 5% in Europe 95% in Asia and a population of 75m... what is/are the benefit(s) of allowing Turkey to join?
2. Bureaucracy. We have a very inefficient unelected EU governance process. I don't like the fact that the real seat of power, the EU Comissioners are a government appointed, unelected leadership which directs and controls the EU parliament.
3. Economy. I do not like the fact that we are net contributors to the tune of £8,500 million pounds a year, that after our rebate and the reinvestment into the UK by the EU, our gross contribution is about £19,000 million pounds a year. For example if we wished to sustain a steel industry, we could from the £8.5 bn give£1m a day and still have £8,135m left to use at home. The problem here is once we save that money here is no guarantee that any particular party will reinvest it in the kind of industry and society that we all might wish for.
4. Immigration. I'm afraid that this island has finite resources and whilst we might like to be everyone's knight in shining armour we can't, sadly we dont have the infrastructure nor the finance to be that. It may sound tough and uncaring but it's not, it's reality. For example, the refugee/migrant children that we are now going to take from Europe is not the way to go. If they are desparate enough they will apply for asylum in the first country they come to, they don't. Furthermore, if the rumours being thrown around that children when they get to Europe are being raped and prostituted then I'm afraid that is a Europe that I do not wish to be part of.... Do you? Seriously?
There are many other issues I could attack, such as the Trade Agreements, TTIP, A European Army, to name but a few, but I'll let you counter these points before moving on. Everything above is fact, not speculation, not rumour but fact. Alone, these points are reason enough for me to wish to choose to leave!
If Turkey is being allowed to join Please let us know when the French referendum giving a mandate for joining was held that is a requirement before the French will consider their application.
For anyone who wants to examine the claims made on here or elsewhere...
https://fullfact.org/europe/border-security-eu/
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-facts-behind-claims-brussels-bureaucrats/
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-management/
https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-migration/
looking forward to see how the more disingenuous of our brethren choose to cherry pick.
I'm sure lots of people are going to be along to tell me why I should/shouldn't listen to a word that website says, but it's one of the more broad ranging ones posted so far. I'll give it a read. Cheers.
Even if they don't join (but they will) they have already virtually negotiated visa free unrestricted travel in the Shengen zone... thin edge of the wedge and all that...If Turkey is being allowed to join Please let us know when the French referendum giving a mandate for joining was held that is a requirement before the French will consider their application.
Chippy_boy
Well-Known Member
With trepidation that I may have been filtered....
I would be surprised if you cannot see from your posts that you appear to most to be an inner because you are nearly always picking arguement with every point an outer makes and countering it with reason to remain, which is fair enough.
The inners cannot give any assurances about anything, even Call me Dave's special deal, that still has to be ratified after we've voted, there is no guarantee it will stick, though it would be tremendously embarrassing if it was rejected. Similarly the outer do not know the detail of what will happen if we were to leave and that my chippy friend is a fact. All we can do is present suppositions and scenarios, and all the inners can do is give scare stories.
As I've posted earlier and been quite explicit, my main reasons for going are (in my opinion):-
1. Security, amongst other security and border control issues, I don't feel that expanding the EU to countries like Turkey is doing anything to secure Europe or making it a safer place.... Why are we letting them join (the fact they play in the CL and join in the Eurovision song contest does not count - I'd be happy to see them kicked out of both. They're a land mass of 5% in Europe 95% in Asia and a population of 75m... what is/are the benefit(s) of allowing Turkey to join?
2. Bureaucracy. We have a very inefficient unelected EU governance process. I don't like the fact that the real seat of power, the EU Comissioners are a government appointed, unelected leadership which directs and controls the EU parliament.
3. Economy. I do not like the fact that we are net contributors to the tune of £8,500 million pounds a year, that after our rebate and the reinvestment into the UK by the EU, our gross contribution is about £19,000 million pounds a year. For example if we wished to sustain a steel industry, we could from the £8.5 bn give£1m a day and still have £8,135m left to use at home. The problem here is once we save that money here is no guarantee that any particular party will reinvest it in the kind of industry and society that we all might wish for.
4. Immigration. I'm afraid that this island has finite resources and whilst we might like to be everyone's knight in shining armour we can't, sadly we dont have the infrastructure nor the finance to be that. It may sound tough and uncaring but it's not, it's reality. For example, the refugee/migrant children that we are now going to take from Europe is not the way to go. If they are desparate enough they will apply for asylum in the first country they come to, they don't. Furthermore, if the rumours being thrown around that children when they get to Europe are being raped and prostituted then I'm afraid that is a Europe that I do not wish to be part of.... Do you? Seriously?
There are many other issues I could attack, such as the Trade Agreements, TTIP, A European Army, to name but a few, but I'll let you counter these points before moving on. Everything above is fact, not speculation, not rumour but fact. Alone, these points are reason enough for me to wish to choose to leave!
No, you're not on the filter list (yet) ;-)
I agree no-one knows what's going to happen either way, but we can make pretty reasonable guesses based on history, what needs to be done, what's going on in other countries etc. Sometimes we can be pretty sure about certain things, and when ridiculous claims are made on either side, then it's reasonable to call them out.
The other more general point I would make is that when Innies - sometimes very respectable independent organisations - make their own projections and comments about that they think in their considered estimations will be the consequences of Brexit, it is completely unreasonable to simply write of all such commentary as "scare stories" - your words. It's a lame attempt at discrediting what is often very carefully considered and balanced comment, that people may or may not agree with it. But to simply write it off, and effectively imply it's just lies from people with some conspiracy or agenda is unreasonable.
As to my own situation, I started out being a devout Remainer - despite the fact that there's many things about the EU that I don't like and think are wrong. On balance, I am still inclined to think that our least worst option is to stay and seek reform from within. But my mind is not made up and I genuinely have not decided which way to vote yet. I started out thinking that we'd be in deep trouble without a trade deal, and being 100% certain in my own mind that we can never get one in less than a decade, then I was feeling we have to stay. Now I am not so sure we need one, and therefore the leave option feels a bit more viable. Reading up about this aspect has been useful.
But looking at it from your perspective, have you not considered that what you cite as negatives could possibly be fixed from within the EU? The immigration issue is becoming such a problem across Europe, it seems very conceivable to me that there will be great trepidation about allowing Turkey in. It might take years before the EU agrees to that. And who knows what might happen in the meantime? Perhaps countries might decide on free-movement, but allow some sort of cap to curtail excessive movement into one country who's infrastructure can't support it. At present there's been few signs of support for such a change, but who knows if that might be negotiable as the months and years progress.
I won't answer all your points specifically - I have some work to get on with...
FFS we are a small island without immigrants our economically would be fucked due to skill shortages and not being able to sell what we have left our service industry. The world has changed we have moved on a lot since the 1950's the world is a different place than it was back then. All this talk about infrastructure is bullshit. the recent curbs on immigration have resulted in the slide in our top university being hampered in not being able to attract the best available talents to our shores, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-36203613"Little Englanders"? The usual cry of racist to anyone who has concerns about the influx of people into our country, a country thats infrastructure is not coping with what we have. People who dont think its right that people can come here and then demand their own totally seperate laws and communities, people who have no interest in integration.
This constant bleating by the inners and the left is a joke.
Its self defeating measures like this that those from the right can't see with there myopic view on life that will bring this country down.
stonerblue
Well-Known Member
I thought it entirely typical of that special little snowflake, all he has ever posted is remainian propaganda without the logic to disuse or defend it ;0)
Unlike you who has posted endless hyperbolic 'out' threads, Chippy has had several fair and balanced conversations on this thread without resorting to childish name-calling.
Nice to see your use of Esperanto though, very European..
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