EU referendum

[Paul_Powers_Tash]

Doesn't it tell you everything when the remain side like Tim when trying to think of 5 great things the EU have done for us come up with nonsense like European peace, NATO anyone? and cheaper phone tariffs; who gives a shit.

What price democracy and sovereignty?

The real possibility that in a few short years through the mantra of "ever closer union" our troops, taxes, immigration policy, laws,trade agreements, economic strategy and currency, ie everything that effects our daily lives and life chances,will be decided by a small group of unelected, unaccountable, faceless megalomaniacs terrifies me.

 

[Helmet Cole]

What about getting a toddlers ears pierced?
For anyone who doubts there is a federal EU 'project', google future force 2020 - a defence review that apparently hasn't even happened yet. Then google 'French military victories' and see if you have any concerns.

 

[Luck95]

vote leave

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Doesn't it tell you everything when the remain side like Tim when trying to think of 5 great things the EU have done for us come up with nonsense like European peace, NATO anyone? and cheaper phone tariffs; who gives a shit.

What price democracy and sovereignty?

The real possibility that in a few short years through the mantra of "ever closer union" our troops, taxes, immigration policy, laws,trade agreements, economic strategy and currency, ie everything that effects our daily lives and life chances,will be decided by a small group of unelected, unaccountable, faceless megalomaniacs terrifies me.

So you come up with a post without any benefits of leaving the EU lol!

If you don't think peace is an important matter, I'm not sure I would be impressed with your priorities. When has NATO had to intervene to protect us btw? )and I've said NATO has an important role too).

 

[Tim of the Oak]

I'm going to get my toddlers ears pierced before the fucking EU make up rules about inappropriately dressed children.

I think there is more a risk that the EU will update your joke book lol!

 

[Tim of the Oak]

Good night everyone including plastic push bike!

 

[Metal Biker]

We didn't need to join the ECSC. Germany attacked France in both World Wars and we fought alongside France. The important point is the alliance between France and Germany.

1. The Equal Pay Act in the UK was a poor imitation of the stronger interpretations from the ECJ that referred back to the Treaty of Rome to decide on intentions. I could write you essays on this but don't want to bore the rest of Bluemoon to death. Look at the Enderby Case for further info.

2. NATO was formed in the late 40s, Franco's atrocities against the Spanish people continued well into the 50s. The crimes had an impact beyond the Spanish borders. So the Hundreds of thousands oof civilian victims of the Spanish Civil War (and following years of persecution) weren't impirtant because Hitler only helped to bomb them. He don't need to invade because he had an ally in Franco.

3 So you tried to mock me about European phone charges when I just said this was a benefit the EU had brought. No this hasn't stopped any wars lol. That said if mobiles had been about and Kaiser Wilhelm had rang his cousin George before attacking France (to clarify whether Britain would enter the War) the First World War might not have happened and the post war depression in Germany that les to Hitler's rise might not have happened!

In summary, you are looking a little bit silly misrepresenting my points lol!

The ECSC had nothing to do with peace in Europe. It was about rebuilding both nations after the war, making costs easier. There is no comparison with an alliance with a nation during wartime and signing a treaty whose sole purpose was to prevent further antagonisations between France and Germany. It especially did not do anything to bring about peace in the UK, which is kind of the point here.

1. Poor or not (your opinion), it was the first act passed in British Parliament declaring equal pay and rights for men and women in the UK. The EU didn't introduce anything similar until 2003, a full 30 years after we'd been a member.

2. NATO was formed, but didn't become an active peace organisation until the mid 50's. NATO is not responsible for the continued atrocities in Spain and again, even it it were responsible for the peace, Spain didn't become a member until 1982, 7 years AFTER the Franco regime ended. For example in my view, the EU did NOTHING to stop Napoleon. Stupid, non? NATO is simply an agreement which states "one attacked, ALL attacked". It's not a governing body or authoritarian organisation enforcing peace. That's why there's the United Nations (for all the good its worth). So NATO's goal may not be to enforce peace, but my word it's been a startling effective side effect.

3. I asked you to give me examples on how the EU has kept peace in Europe WITHOUT the aid or assistance of NATO. You said free mobile phone roaming charges. The ridicule was justified. I'm not even going to address your point about Kaiser Wilhelm (its just too stupid). Instead, here's something to keep you occupied.

 

[Metal Biker]

Good night everyone including plastic push bike!

Goodnight Tim Nice but Dim.

 

[Metal Biker]

So you come up with a post without any benefits of leaving the EU lol!

If you don't think peace is an important matter, I'm not sure I would be impressed with your priorities. When has NATO had to intervene to protect us btw? )and I've said NATO has an important role too).

How many times did Russia attack directly a NATO member during the Cold War?
Name any European country that attacked another NATO member?

NATO didn't have to intervene because everyone knew what would happen if they did attack a NATO country. Britain, France, Germany oh and the US with 8,000+ nukes would have done something about it. Nobody's that crazy.

 

[cibaman]

I think it will be a fairly narrow IN - say 45% Brexit 55% Remain - then we sit back and watch the Tory party meltdown.

Alternatively its a narrow OUT 45% Remain 55% Brexit - then we sit back and watch the Tory party meltdown.

Either way Call Me Dave - whom some would have as the consummate political operator has dropped a fucking huge bollock with this - backed into a corner by a none existent UKIP threat. Him and his "advisors" never calculated the number of votes expressed as seats - panicked and promised the vote thus sealing his own political demise.

Any "Out" vote, will cause Tory party meltdown. I reckon 55% Remain might keep Cameron in his job. There would probably be a leadership challenge but it wold likely be a stalking horse challenger. I would be surprised if Johnson threw his hat in the ring. The risk for him would be that the less rabid Leave MPs would decide to put the referendum behind them and vote for party unity. He would probably wait until Cameron agrees to step down in 2018.